Any comments on the BCD inflater integrated Octos?

[RJP]

Sort of like one of those little "donut" spare tires...

The ease and simplicty and small size all makes sense, until you actually need to use the item for its intended purpose in a real world situation.

In my mind, they are a great execution of a bad idea!

I dove with one from the get-go and loved it, until...

Ended up dealing with an out of air situation with another diver. Donated my primary, put the integrated octo/lpi in my mouth no problem. Then we start to swim...

He's on the "wrong" side of me, so he's now pulling my primary hose across my neck, which is pulling the alt out of my mouth. I'm trying to vent but can't really reach it well because there are two hoses between my hand and the button, can vent by pulling on the corrugated hose because it's in my mouth (and caught up in the primary hose.)

Not an emergency situation and everything was fine, but was a clear illustration of the fact that these things just might not be great.

Next day I switched to 7' primary and bungied alternate. Have had a few situations since where I've needed to donate and swim with other divers and it's just been so much easier. Both to the donee who didn't need to be attached to me, and to me breathing off an alternate that is the same as my primary.

 

[Chad Carney]

When shariing air with an Alternate Inflation Regulator, (AIR), the proper procedure is to donate your primary with your right hand, and hold onto the out of air diver with your left hand, in an almost completely face to face position, then immediately ascend.

Once the OOA diver takes control of your primary, you have your right hand free to also hold onto him, or vent your BC by a right shoulder dump valve, or the vent on the AIR itself. Some models will require removal from your mouth briefly to deflate, others will not.

Swimming anywhere, like back to an anchor line, with an out of air diver is a big mistake. Just get the diver to the surface. If you can not ascend directly to the surface, you are diving beyond the range of your equipment.

Chad

 

[divingjd]

I agree with Chad Carney's analysis. Once you are sharing air, you shouldn't be going anywhere but up. If you are going anywhere else, you are diving beyond your equipment, and that doesn't mean beyond an AIR2, that means beyond standard recreational diving equipment.

I am sorry, but this a training and familiarity issue and not an equipment problem. If you are properly trained and familiar enough with the procedure that it is automatic (which is the way it should be, regardless of your equipment set-up), then it is easy to share air with an integrated air source. I have always used an AIR2 and have done lots of air-sharing ascents with it (one for real, the others teaching classes) and never had a problem.

I would be far more concerned about sharing air with all the octos I see being dragged through sand and across reefs.

 

[AlaskaDiver]

I too was curious about the simplistic set up. It was not right for me after I tried a friend's, but I would suggest that you try it out first. I understand you want to save money on your set up, but don't forget safety.

 

[lamont]

I don't really understand the problem that this solves. Does that extra hose really cause a problem underwater, and can you just *route* it better to solve any streamlining/snagging issues?

Cave divers use a 7' long hose / bungee necklace config and do not use integrated octo/inflators, and if anyone should care about streamlining and snagging it should be them...

It seems to me that divers are getting hung up on removing hoses for the sake of removing hoses.

 

[spectrum]

Inflater octos, IMO: Just say no.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1169848&postcount=3

Unless you intend to do some deep deco techical diving any Nitrox capable computer will go the distance. Air integrated and wireless are options you can well do without. So yes you can get great use from a <$400 computer.

Pete

 

[Damselfish]

Note that the combined until until isn't a way to save money, typically winds up costing a little more than getting a regular octo.

I'm in the "get a regular octo" camp. The rental stuff I used for certification had an AIR2, and I didn't like it for a bunch of the reasons given often.

 

[halocline]

I would also agree in principle, but don't forget you could very well have a panicked diver that could make keeping oriented and calm pretty challenging. With regards to swimming, I'll also agree that in general you want to go straight to the surface, but if the donating diver has plenty of gas and the receiving diver is calm and in control, I personally would want to do a safety stop and very slow ascent, which might be more comfortable with some room between the divers. There is a solution for these scenarios with an AIR2, just use a longer primary hose. Then, really the main differences between this and the bungied alternate are that you need a hand to get it to your mouth, and you can't extend the inflator over your head to vent, neither of which is too big a deal in OW rec situations. Remember for 90% at least of rec divers, the top of the BC air cell will not be higher than their mouth, so venting while breathing is possible.

I think it's the short hose going to the OOA diver that's the issue, and that's easily solvable. I've read so many posts that basically say "diving with a AIR2 means you're gonna die" and I wonder if people that are that worried about risk should be diving at all. That said, I don't dive with one, but that's because I got such a good deal on a nice alternate and my wing has a VERY short inflator hose, which I love.

 

[*Floater*]

I wil be buying a complete diving setup sometime in the next coming weeks and I am new to diving and still trying to decide on what features and equipment I want to buy. I do not plan on spending alot of money right now, I just want my own stuff so I am not using rental gear. I dont plan on spending over $1,000 on my whole setup for now and will upgrade later if I need to.

I haven't looked closely, but I'm under the impression that regular octos are cheaper, so if you want to save money then just get one of those. Integrated octos may be cool for basic rec diving (one less hose!) but they won't cut it if you get into more advanced diving.

 

[Jake]

Everyone's covered pretty much what I have to say, but what the hell:

I've been doing a lot of rescue training lately, and have found the integrated air source to be more trouble than it's worth. Here are a couple of my reasons:

They never seem to be where you need them when you need them. How many times have you tried just to grab your LP inflator and it was in a strange position? Or as seems to happen far too often for me: I grab my piece of crap snorkel by mistake.

It makes little sense IMO to have both divers have to switch equipment in an OOA situation. Someone's out of air, have just ripped your primary out of your mouth, and now you have to hunt for one. Let's hope you have a good breath and they're not panicking so much that you can actually try and hunt for your device.

In the unlikely event that you become unresponsive on the bottom, I've found integrated air sources more difficult to manage for assisted ascents. They're often bulkier and more difficult to use for someone who doesn't know your gear.

For similar reasons, I don't like them on the surface either. If someone has to swim to your aid in an emergency situation on the surface, it's probably easier to inflate a regular LPI than it is an air integrated one.