Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[Couv]

So, props to Hollis/Huish!

Well, how are we going to bash Huish now?

 

[lowviz]

Just found this and it looks EXTREMELY promising!

These researchers found and patented a way to gel ammonium hydroxide. This would allow the ammonia to stay in place on just the lens while it cleans, hydroxylates, and nanostructures the glass surface. IMHO, all the mask defogger manufacturers should be looking at this as a new product, something that seasons/re-seasons a glass mask. Note that the patent has long expired.

US3172860A - Aqueous high-viscosity ammonium hydroxide composition - Google Patents

“Strong reagents such as ammonium hydroxide have a multitude of uses such as, for example, cleaning agents in the preparation of surfaces prior to the application of protective coatings and in alkali cleaning of surfaces in general. However, the fluidity of these reagents very often limits their utility. Increasing the viscosity of these reagents, even to the point of gelation, would be desirable providing that the reagent remained reactive and the high-viscosity state persisted for practical lengths of time. Attempts to produce such high-viscosity reagents with conventional thickening agents such as gelatin, casein, gum arabic, and the like, have been unsuccessful. Either the reagent will not gel in the first place, or if it does so, it is so short-lived as to have no practical value.

Accordingly, it is a main object of the present invention to prepare high-viscosity ammonium hydroxide compositions.

It has been discovered that high-viscosity ammonium hydroxide solutions can be prepared by incorporating therein a thickening quantity of poly(alkylene oxide) having a molecular weight in the range between about twenty thousand and ten million.”

I swear that I will summarize this thread in a timely fashion, but at the moment, I'm headed down another rabbit hole...

 

[stuartv]

Go, lowviz, go!!

To be honest, I am currently just a little tiny bit worried that I'm going to be diving sometime in the near-ish future and my mask is going to fall off because the strap buckles were weakened by their ammonia bath - but didn't fail - yet.

 

[lexvil]

Musings;
I can’t claim any real conclusions because of a small sample size but I have observed,

1. Dishwasher seems to produce the same results as ammonia soak

2. Ammonia soak may lead to damage of certain parts.

Prior to this thread I had never considered either as something I would do to a mask, very reluctant to try the dishwasher but did and it has had great results, at least as good or better than the ammonia. I don’t think I would run a make through the dishwasher every week but maybe every 40 or 50 dives because it really cleans things and may go a long way toward making standard anti fog work much better.

 

[lowviz]

Prior to this thread I had never considered either as something I would do to a mask, very reluctant to try the dishwasher but did and it has had great results, at least as good or better than the ammonia.

Yeah, I'm trying to sort all this out. If I can gel the ammonia then I can do a decent comparison.

 

[Umuntu]

Musings;
I can’t claim any real conclusions because of a small sample size but I have observed,

1. Dishwasher seems to produce the same results as ammonia soak

2. Ammonia soak may lead to damage of certain parts.

Prior to this thread I had never considered either as something I would do to a mask, very reluctant to try the dishwasher but did and it has had great results, at least as good or better than the ammonia. I don’t think I would run a make through the dishwasher every week but maybe every 40 or 50 dives because it really cleans things and may go a long way toward making standard anti fog work much better.

I don't worry about putting untempered glass, plastic and silicone kitchen products in the dishwasher. So I have no problem putting tempered glass and silicone scuba masks in the dishwasher.

My only issue is ... why didn't I think of doing it before ?

 

[stuartv]

Musings;
I can’t claim any real conclusions because of a small sample size but I have observed,

1. Dishwasher seems to produce the same results as ammonia soak

2. Ammonia soak may lead to damage of certain parts.

Prior to this thread I had never considered either as something I would do to a mask, very reluctant to try the dishwasher but did and it has had great results, at least as good or better than the ammonia. I don’t think I would run a make through the dishwasher every week but maybe every 40 or 50 dives because it really cleans things and may go a long way toward making standard anti fog work much better.

Didn't @lowviz already do some testing to determine whether the ammonia soak after the dishwasher contributes anything to fog-resistance?

I mean, if the dishwasher produces the same results as dishwasher plus ammonia, wouldn't we already know that and be not bothering with the ammonia step?

I'm asking, rather than go back to read so many pages of this thread to refresh my memory.

That said, I am for sure going to continue using the dishwasher treatment on new masks, but no more full ammonia baths. And maybe no more ammonia at all. I am eagerly awaiting progress from lowviz on the gel idea and results.

 

[lexvil]

Didn't @lowviz already do some testing to determine whether the ammonia soak after the dishwasher contributes anything to fog-resistance?

I mean, if the dishwasher produces the same results as dishwasher plus ammonia, wouldn't we already know that and be not bothering with the ammonia step?

I'm asking, rather than go back to read so many pages of this thread to refresh my memory.

That said, I am for sure going to continue using the dishwasher treatment on new masks, but no more full ammonia baths. And maybe no more ammonia at all. I am eagerly awaiting progress from lowviz on the gel idea and results.

I too don’t wish to reread all of this but wasn’t the theory of the ammonia more about the micro-restructuring of the glass surface? The theory being that once such change takes place the need to use something as a defog was reduced? Once again a very small sampling on my part, on both the SP frameless and the Zeagle lens only ammonia soak, I found the right out of the ammonia and a short soak in a bucket of water neither showed a tendency to fog except around the edges of the SP, I ran the SP through the dishwasher and took it right to the pool and it showed no sign of fogging. I then put more ammonia in the SP and let it sit overnight, once again shows tendency to fog on the edges. The Zeagle less fogging but both react very well to just a touch of antifog.
My pool is 80° so I can’t really get a good real world test going, I may forget how to dive by the time I can get back in the water.

 

[stuartv]

I too don’t wish to reread all of this but wasn’t the theory of the ammonia more about the micro-restructuring of the glass surface? The theory being that once such change takes place the need to use something as a defog was reduced? Once again a very small sampling on my part, on both the SP frameless and the Zeagle lens only ammonia soak, I found the right out of the ammonia and a short soak in a bucket of water neither showed a tendency to fog except around the edges of the SP, I ran the SP through the dishwasher and took it right to the pool and it showed no sign of fogging. I then put more ammonia in the SP and let it sit overnight, once again shows tendency to fog on the edges. The Zeagle less fogging but both react very well to just a touch of antifog.
My pool is 80° so I can’t really get a good real world test going, I may forget how to dive by the time I can get back in the water.

Right, but the microstructuring is for the purpose of making it more fog-resistant, right? And even with that done, the prescription is still to use some type of anti-fog agent (like diluted baby shampoo) just before diving.

 

[lexvil]

Right, but the microstructuring is for the purpose of making it more fog-resistant, right? And even with that done, the prescription is still to use some type of anti-fog agent (like diluted baby shampoo) just before diving.

I don’t know, that may be the reasoning and I would love to see a really test to show how much restructuring has actually taken place and how long it takes.