Another LDS Experience Gone Sour

[dyarab]

Just wanted to clear up a few points, and am trying to decide whether or not I made the correct decision.


Thanks guys
-Matt

You made the decision that you thought was best for you. It's your money, do what you want with it. Doesn't matter what anyone says on these boards. If the LDS doesnt like it... take your, and your father's business, elsewhere.

 

[bgi]

I would suggest that the relationship between LDS's and customers is much more personal because the LDS services are related to a hobby/sport that is perceived to be much more life-threatening than other hobbies/sports. The staff is also much more likely to be training you to stay alive. This creates a a strong trust relationship. Would you take a SCUBA class from someone you didn't trust?

With a strong trust relationship comes potential for abuse, like some heavy beratement when the customer goes somewhere else to save a few hundred bucks on gear.

 

[mels_2]

You call that appreciation? ********. It's business. I would bet he took his cert class there cause they were the cheapest (a bad sign in a student, btw) because they certainly weren't the closest. And two sets of mask, fins and snorkel is NOTHING to a dive shop. People want a warm and fuzzy relationship with their LDS... a free fill here, free o-ring there and then when it comes to a purchase they want to haggle you down, where's the appreciation then?
.

So am I not to buy inexpensive things from my LDS just bc they are cheap items? There is still a mark up and there will be a profit. Lucky for me my LDS gives me service with a smile and usually a conversation wether we are buying a full set up, a flag, or our next purchase a light. Why do we go there over other shops bc they gave us good service. Did it take me a bit to figure it out, yes it did and thanks to SB and a thread they proved the were worth me spending my money with.

They spent time with me when I was purchasing my suit......ordered one for me to TRY on knowing if it didn't work I would be going elswhere. It fit and I purchased it there.

And yes I did go with a cheaper OW class, did i get a bad teacher I don't think so. Did it make me a bad student NO I was able to spend more on my equipment. I learned my skills, Know from him that I should continue training, even taking refresher courses. He has made the first impression of us as divers and I would recommend his class along with my LDS to my friends.

 

[BBP]

Obviously a sensitive topic. I really like the LDS that I use in my town. I did my classroom and poolwork there when I was certified, and they do my annual service. when I visit, I almost always walk out with something I find that I need there. That said though, I can't justify paying twice the amount for major pieces of gear from them. Nobody has ever satisfactorily explained to me why there is such a difference in online prices as compared to what brick and mortar shops sell them for. somewhere along the line there is literally a 100% mark up and instead of getting an explaination of why, all you usually get is emotion in response. I don't get it. But I can't spend my hard earned money unwisely either.
BKB

 

[Wijbrandus]

MXRacer, your biggest (and only) mistake was being honest with the LDS. I would have simply dodged the question, or answered him with a yes. While I certainly can relate to dive shop owner's frustrations with Internet purchases, he went way over the line.

I do think that if you get a pool demo, you do have an obligation to give that shop a shot at a price match. I know you didn't get the same thing, but you came close. He might have been willing to order you a similar kit for a close price. If not, you could have walked away without a guilty bone in your body.

I've bought off the Internet, but I far prefer to buy at my LDS. I get to talk diving while we shop, I know the people there, and it's more of a social event than anything else. There's one shop around here that I'll literally stay there until closing no matter what time of day I walk in, they are that much fun to be around. I don't always buy stuff there, but my wife spent $2k on dive gear there just a month ago, so I figure they've gotten some rewards for their efforts.

On a related note, I was once chased out of a dive shop just for asking the owner if they carried backplates. Talk about driving away potential customers...

 

[jonnythan]

Nobody has ever satisfactorily explained to me why there is such a difference in online prices as compared to what brick and mortar shops sell them for. somewhere along the line there is literally a 100% mark up and instead of getting an explaination of why, all you usually get is emotion in response. I don't get it. But I can't spend my hard earned money unwisely either.
BKB

Well in this case, the markup (which was not 100%, and the shop never got a chance to come close to or match the price the OP found on the similar but cheaper item anyway) was paying for the salesman's time, the display stock, the storefront, and the pool.

I bet if the OP had called the shop, told them about the deal he found, and asked if they could come closer because he appreciated the resources they gave to him, they would have done so.

But we'll never know.

 

[mstudley]

If I spent a couple of hours at a BMW dealership talking with a salesman who was giving me technical information, advice, and stories, and took the time to go out on a test drive with me, then I went down the road to the next dealership where the salesmen don't know anything and bought my new 530xi because the price on the window was lower, I would be disgusted with myself and I would certainly expect the salesman to give me the cold shoulder if I went back later for something else.

You took advantage of the services they offer for free up front and went behind their backs and bought the item online at a discount without even giving them a shot at the sale. The extra money they charge for the item is to pay for the knowledgeable staff, pool, and storefront. You basically told them their time, their store, their knowledge, and their pool are worth nothing whatsoever to you.

services they offer for FREE... right... if these things are so valuable then they should charge a consulting fee instead of making someone they chatted up for a few hours feel obligated to spend more money on something they could get cheaper elsewhere.

Now I would have asked if they could have matched (not 'come close' but matched) the price first before buying online but only because I would rather buy major components of my gear at an actual store. No match, no deal, no worries on my part regardless of the time they took to sell me something.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Nobody has ever satisfactorily explained to me why there is such a difference in online prices as compared to what brick and mortar shops sell them for.

Let's sell apples, shall we?
I'll sell 'em online, you sell 'em in a store.
You're going to buy your apples and have them shipped to you from the orchards; to have your apples there for the customer to take home - so you'll have inventory, and you'll have to move 'em or throw 'em out. I'm going to "blind" drop ship them from the orchards (the packages will have my company name on 'em even though they're coming directly from the orchards). We're both going to pay the same thing for them from the orchard owners, but I'm going to pay the orchard with the money I have accompanying the orders I get over the internet, while you're going to have to pay the orchard when you buy the apples, so you're going to have to use money you haven't yet collected - which costs you the going rate whether you borrow or use your own that you could otherwise have invested and making the going rate. My shipping cost per apple will be higher than yours, but less than the sales tax your customers have to pay and mine don't.
You have to unpack, display, and sell the apples by having a real person there to wait on your customers. I never even touch an apple.
I let a computer program take the orders, collect the money, check the credit of the customers and in fact *move* the money into my account, then automatically place the drop-ship order with the supplier and transfer the supplier's part of the money I already have *after* I have confirmation that the shipment was delivered. If the shipment doesn't get delivered the supplier and the shipper eat it. I oversee the process and make sure the orders are flowing to the right suppliers who are currently harvesting apples.
You have to collect the occasional hot check.
You have the following fixed monthly costs
Store rental : $1800
Sales person (minimum wage + taxes + workers comp + unemployment insurance + a few dozen other mandatory nits & nats depending on the state you're in ) : $1440
Electricity : $200
Water/Sewer/Garbage collection : $ 50
Business license : $ 50 + 1% of gross sales
Sales tax : 10%
Ad valorem taxes on average inventory : 1% of average inventory
Financing on average inventory : 1% of average inventory
Spoilage : 10% of average inventory
Miscellaneous expenses : $300
Owner (you) compensation : $0
---------
My fixed monthly expenses - I'm using a computer in my house - 10% of my floor space
10% of mortgage payment : $150
Sales person : don't need one : $0
Electricity : 10% of average monthly bill $20
Water/Sewer/Garbage collection (10%): $ 5
Business license : $ 50 + 1% of gross sales
Sales tax : 0% (internet)
Ad valorem taxes on average inventory : $0 - I have no inventory
Financing on average inventory : 1% of average inventory: $0
Spoilage : 10% of average inventory :$0
Miscellaneous expenses : $300
---
Do I need to continue, or has the difference been "satisfactorily explained?"
---
Now, with the above in mind, the Local Dive Shop is doomed unless there is a paradigm shift in the way they do business. The LDS has some things the online place doesn't... Air, pool, equipment tryouts, on-site service, training, expertise, local information. The LDS must figure out a way to charge for these things to make up for the vanishing margins on equipment that the internet will eventually shove down their collective throats. The industry is trying everything they can think of to delay this inevitable erosion of margins on equipment, but the process is underway and irreversible. To survive the LDS will have to charge more for air, charge for pool time, charge for information, and charge more for classes. They will have to abandon equipment margins as rent payers because customers won't tolerate the price difference with the internet.
As an interim measure we'll see more "reimbursible" services. That is, trying out a BC in the pool will cost you $20, but that comes off the price if you buy.
Rick

 

[Dive4Life]

It is funny how some people think that we as consumers OWE the LDS's something. I love the LDS I go to and I do buy a lot of stuff there, but if he can't compete then I get it elsewhere. I do not owe anyone anything and to think that I would have to buy something because I looked at someones product in their store is just plain stupid. If you don't want people coming in and looking, then buying online, you might as well go ahead and lock your doors and only let select people in who you know who are willing to purchase your products. Don't feel bad for buying things online, someone is just finding a better way of doing things and they are reaping the benefit. THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!! THIS IS HOW BUSINESS IS!!!!!
I personally do one thing for my LDS, I always give them the opportunity to compete. If I find an item cheaper elsewhere I will call them up and tell them and see how they can make it worth my time to buy from them. If they can't then I will most certainly buy online and enjoy the money I saved elsewhere, because I do work hard for the money I have.
The way people say, "YOU SHOULD BUY FROM AN LDS!", in my opinion are just un-American. If I find a better way of doing business and I can make it cheaper for the consumer then I am going to do it.
In all honesty you should blame the manufacturer's for how they run their show. They are trying to block competition which frankly just doesn't really work out well for our society.

 

[H2Andy]

wow.... who signed me up for Economics 101?

is there gonna be a quiz?



nice explanation, Rick