(Another) Dive goes bad fast.

[lowviz]

So, then the agencies are giving people license to dive who do not have the ability to, "calmly execute an air-share and ascend while sharing gas." Is that what we're all agreeing is true? Does anyone see a problem with this?

Yes, I do.

 

[jviehe]

I think we're being a bit hard on the buddy. We wernt there, so we dont know what he was thinking. Maybe the dive beifing was just bad. What did the OP do when the buddy changed the plan? He went along with it. In any case, now the OP knows that he needs to practice preventing and dealing with free flowing, switching to alternate regs, buddy communication etc. Most of the problem here is simply inexperience. With more experience and thus confidence, small problems like this wont be a problem. You simply cant teach every scenario in real conditions.

The correct response here would have been to breath off the freeflowing reg, signal your buddy and ascend. If you ran out of air on the way up, share air.

 

[jviehe]

So, then the agencies are giving people license to dive who do not have the ability to, "calmly execute an air-share and ascend while sharing gas." Is that what we're all agreeing is true? Does anyone see a problem with this?

I dont agree that that is true.

 

[mike the brit]

Just to reiterate that not all second stages are rated for cold water use. I think here in England all are rated for cold water for obvious reasons, especially the more top of the line regs.

Don't let the experience put you off, but remember that no matter at what depth your at, an unexpected freeflow gets the pulse goung and your SAC rate will increase. At your level, both of you MUST practice sharing air and turning on and off your first stage, you should really try doing this yourself as your experience improves, but its not easy on a single cylinder.

All in all, considering your dive experience, I think you did a good job. As a previos post suggests, you can be treated for the bends, but drowning tends to be terminal!!

happy diving
Mike

 

[BarryNL]

I asked my 12-yr old son what he would do in this situation and he immediately said "signal to go up and then go up and breath the freeflowing reg." I asked him if he would use his pony bottle and he gave me a stupid look and said "you only need to do that when your air is gone". Is he wrong?

Yes, he is. Breathing from a free-flowing air source which is rapidly emptying your tank and is likely to stop within a minute or so is not a stable situation. The first priority should be to get a reliable source of air, then begin to work on the problem. Going to a pony or your buddy's alternate achieves this.

Underwater problems need to be solved underwater.

A freeflowing regulator at 20m is unlikely to provide air for long enough to do a safe, slow ascent - it loses air pretty much as fast as cutting the hose - and see this video ( YouTube - Cutting a Scuba Divers Regulator Hoses ) for just how long that gives you.

 

[BarryNL]

At your level, both of you MUST practice sharing air and turning on and off your first stage, you should really try doing this yourself as your experience improves, but its not easy on a single cylinder.

I'd agree about the sharing air drills - everyone should be practising that regularly (I wonder how many do?). I don't really see shutting down valves as a single tank diver skill - in fact it's not really a "no-deco limit" diver's skill. If you have a free flow which is not easily and quickly stopped then you abort the dive; you don't stay on the bottom fiddling with the tank valves. Save that for dives when ascending is not an option.

 

[TSandM]

I'll still stand on the idea that the solution is to initiate an air-share and THEN ascend. The reason is that at the time the freeflow occurs, you are (hopefully) stable at a depth, AND you have something to breathe. You can signal your buddy, and he can fumble around finding his octo and getting it to you, and the stress isn't too high because you STILL have gas. If you initiate an ascent while breathing off the freeflowing reg, you're entering into an unstable state (ascending) where it is much easier to get separated from your buddy, and you have no idea WHEN you will run out of gas, and when you do, getting gas from your buddy has just gone from an elective action you can execute deliberately, to an emergency action which must be carried out perfectly and FAST.

Turning off the valve is optional; it preserves some gas in the tank, but that gas probably won't be usable by the diver, as few people can turn their own single tank valves on underwater. (It's possible, though!) What shutting the valve does is calm the situation, because the incredible noise and visual disturbance goes away.

 

[Rick Inman]

I'll still stand on the idea that the solution is to initiate an air-share and THEN ascend.

Oh, how I wish it were so. But the reality is that the majority of recreational divers have not practiced an air share since it was done a couple of times with an instructor on their knees in the pool. There is no muscle memory, there is no auto-responce... in fact, I think most go blank on training they have long forgotten. Plus, as your signature line says;

"Generally we all play Monday morning quarterback . . . but we neglect to factor the panic that almost always stops logical thought in its tracks, and derails us from self rescue." Richie Kohler

Unless you do OOG drills so frequently that you can go into one automatically without even thinking about it, when it comers time for a real one, chances are it will be a mess.

JMHO...

 

[Charlie99]

I think we're being a bit hard on the buddy........
.............
The correct response here would have been to breath off the freeflowing reg, signal your buddy and ascend. If you ran out of air on the way up, share air.

I don't think it is being hard or harsh to point out that the buddy erred by not immediately closing the distance to the OP and being available to share air.

In an ideal world, nobody would ever make mistakes. In this case, the relatively inexperienced buddy responded to the free flow and a signal of "UP!" with puzzlement and inaction.

This forced the OP to have to decide between swimming down towards the buddy or doing a solo ascent.

IMO, it is very reasonable to point out that fact and to remind ourselves that continuing to breathe is the number one priority, and if there is any doubt or strangeness or weirdness going on, that we should get right up into physical contact distance with our buddies until the situation is resolved.

The point of the discussion is not to make fun of the buddy or the original poster, but to make it more likely that we respond appropriately if faced with a similar situation.

 

[TSandM]

Unless you do OOG drills so frequently that you can go into one automatically without even thinking about it, when it comers time for a real one, chances are it will be a mess.

You may well be right, Rick -- but isn't it better to have the mess while the diver with the freeflow still has something to breathe, instead of having it halfway to the surface, where you now have to manage an air-share as a true emergency, in midwater?