(Another) Dive goes bad fast.

[Reno1979]

To clarify... In my mind, for a split second, I thought it was probably the octo free flowing, since when I certified, the rental octos we had all free flowed when held by the octo keepers. So I grabbed it to (in my head) stop it from free flowing, by dropping it... The fingers of the glove made it hard to tell if I had a good hold of it, or at all, since the bubbles were making it hard to see directly down. Soon, I realized that the free flow was from my main 2nd stage, not the octo. This is where I probably should have retrieved the octo, and used it, instead of breathing the free flowing 2nd stage.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

.....So... My mistake... I really should have swam down to my buddy and shared air.

That does not sound like the take home lesson to me.. You were unable to make a controlled ascent with a freeflowing regulator. What makes you think that sharing air with your buddy on the bottom would be the proper course of action???

Doesn't anyone else see a big problem? I think you should have given him the up sign, swam down to him, grabbed him, give the up sign again and immediately started the acent. Hopefully he would get the message that you want him to come up with you. 60 feet is not that deep. What are you going to do when something really bad happens?


I see no reason to start sharing air (on the bottom when you have plenty of it). I see no reason to try to go to the octopus. Why screw around trying to switch regs, share air, shut off valves etc. ? These are ALL unnedessary complications that it sounds like you are honestly incapable of handling (based on your inability to switch to an octopus when the primary feeflowed) plus they CAN all lead to making the problem much, much worse.

Now this is a serious question: What are they teaching OW students to do in a situation like this?


I asked my 12-yr old son what he would do in this situation and he immediately said "signal to go up and then go up and breath the freeflowing reg." I asked him if he would use his pony bottle and he gave me a stupid look and said "you only need to do that when your air is gone". Is he wrong?

 

[Reno1979]

In OW class... I was taught that if there is air readily available, get it. In the moment, I decided it was not close enough, and made a swimming ascent that I was not in very good control of. As I posted, I didn't feel the need to relocate the octo, as I was taught that it is not hard to breath on a free flowing reg. I did however let the speed of which my air was dropping get to me, and this probably led to me swimming up quicker than I should have. Also, I really made an error by not dumping air quick enough to then be able to slow my ascent rate.

Had I swam to my buddy and got on his octo, there would have been much less of a reason to "get up". That is why I reasoned sharing air would have been the best way out of the situation. Do you disagree? I actually did just what your 12 year old said... I just did it too quickly. There were no pony bottles involved.

 

[TSandM]

I disagree that the correct procedure is to ascend on your freeflowing reg. Signal your buddy and get on his gas; you or he can shut down your valve. If you have calculated gas reserves properly, there will be NO problem with doing this. Once the valve is shut down, a short time may thaw the offending regulator. If not, a coordinated, calm, and QUIET ascent can be done while sharing gas.

If you aren't accustomed to it, the sheer noise and reduced vision of existing in a cloud of freeflowing bubbles is disoriented and disconcerting at best, and highly anxiety provoking. Shutting down the noise and the visual distraction helps everybody get calmer. IF your buddy has the correct reserves, it is NO problem to do an air-sharing ascent, and it is highly likely that you will regain access to your own gas at some point. On the other hand, ascending on the free-flowing reg runs the risk that the tank will run empty during the ascent, creating a need for a CESA (and incidentally most likely requiring the tank get a viz before the shop will fill it again).

Yes, this strategy depends on both divers being able to calmly execute an air-share and ascend while sharing gas, but EVERYBODY should be able to do this -- it is a survival skill.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I disagree that the correct procedure is to ascend on your freeflowing reg. Signal your buddy and get on his gas; you or he can shut down your valve. If you have calculated gas reserves properly, there will be NO problem with doing this. Once the valve is shut down, a short time may thaw the offending regulator. If not, a coordinated, calm, and QUIET ascent can be done while sharing gas..

Wow... 60 feet (maybe 60 seconds) from all the air in the world and you think that two EXTREMELY inexperienced divers should be shutting down an individual's ONLY functioning scuba unit.

... What happens when they start sharing air and the other guys reg also freeflows due to excessive demand? Why recommend that the diver disable his ability to use the power inflator? It is quite likely he will initially head up too fast, dump too much air and then start plummeting back to the bottom, What if he looses contact with his buddy,, now he has zero air, no way to inflate the bc and is probably in total panic. Think he is going to get that valve back on before he dies? This is a guy who couldn't switch to a necklace second stage when bubbles distracted him..????

I try to teach my kids that a good diver solves his problems underwater and does not "run for the surface", but with something as simple as a freeflow at 60 feet on a recreational dive, the easy solution is to head for the surface (with your buddy) in my opinion. You can always share air if you have to when you are close to the surface.

Could you explain it to the dead guy's wife... Well his regulator started giving him too much air so I shut down his life support system. I let him share mine. Mine started to screw up too and then we somehow got separated and I just kinda floated to the surface and he screwed up and sunk like a rock. I looked for him for a while on the surface and he never came up. Then all the air had run out of my tank and I couldn't go look for his body..I'm really sorry. At least you won't have to pay for a visual on his tank, there is still 1500 psi in it!

I'm not talking about tech divers that have redundancies and training and all kinds of other advantages, we are talking about total novices that might well have come out of a weekend course.

 

[Brewski]

Why do we teach how to breath from a free flowing reg in open water class if no one remembers it and switches to alternate sources? I wouldn't recommend switching to your own octopus. Now your using air faster, your dumping air from the free flow and using more from your octo. Remember the key words from your open water class. stop, think act!
Your buddy did you a disservice by questioning your command to surface. The thumb is never an option its a command, when its given its understood the dive is over, ask why on the surface, go up now! Had he been with you maybe your comfort level would have been such that you wouldn't have ascended so quickly, maybe not who knows. Given your experience I think you did very well keeping your head while breathing from a free flowing reg.

 

[sunnyboy]

Geez. Some people have completely forgotten what it is to be a very new diver.

1. Sounds like you did everything "pretty OK". I know you feel bad about the fast ascent, but stuff like that happens under stress. You did manage to get control before you hit the surface, so good for you!

2. Your buddy is a dipstick. Lose the chump and find someone who can "plan the dive and dive the plan". Sure, your plan wasn't the best, but still - it sounds like your buddy was determined to see that bulldozer no matter what the surface plan.

As for the freeflow, I really doubt your reg froze. Sounds more like it wasn't tuned properly and you fiddling with the adjustment just tipped it "over the edge". Once they start freeflowing, THEN they can freeze, but I don't think that's what caused it.

You should also be commended for wanting to do a "skills and comfort" dive. Too many people just leap into the water with new gear and have problems. Yes - you did have problems but if you had followed your ACTUAL plan (again with the dipstick buddy), you would not have had near the problems as you did - even if the reg freeflowed.

So - advice? Why not! ;-)

Keep doing the skills and comfort dives, but when you have new gear to "test", try and dive in situations where you will stay at or above 30ft until you get comfortable with it.

Other than that, dive, dive, dive!

Cheers,

-S

 

[Charlie99]

Some people have completely forgotten what it is to be a very new diver.
...

2. Your buddy is a dipstick. Lose the chump and find someone who can "plan the dive and dive the plan".

I agree that the buddy's inaction is a big problem. I disagree about dumping him.

The OP says the buddy had a total of 12 dives experience. His improper lack of response is more likely due to inexperience and lack of thought rather than him being a chump/dipstick/bad attitude.

A frequent problem in incidents is that the "UP" signal by a diver having problems is ignored or debated by their buddy. In this case, the buddy also managed to ignore a freeflowing reg.

It also appears that some buddies have not yet ingrained into their instinctive reactions: "IF SOMETHING WEIRD IS GOING ON, GET UP NEXT TO YOUR BUDDY AND GET READY TO ASSIST!".

 

[sunnyboy]

I agree that the buddy's inaction is a big problem. I disagree about dumping him.

The OP says the buddy had a total of 12 dives experience. His improper lack of response is more likely due to inexperience and lack of thought rather than him being a chump/dipstick/bad attitude.

A frequent problem in incidents is that the "UP" signal by a diver having problems is ignored or debated by their buddy. In this case, the buddy also managed to ignore a freeflowing reg.

It also appears that some buddies have not yet ingrained into their instinctive reactions: "IF SOMETHING WEIRD IS GOING ON, GET UP NEXT TO YOUR BUDDY AND GET READY TO ASSIST!".

Good call - I missed the part about the buddy only having 12 dives.

Still - my advice about the buddy were not at all about his (the buddies) handling of the incident - except perhaps the yelling at the end (unacceptable for one with so little experience).

My criticism of the buddy stemmed entirely from his inability to "dive the plan". I detest "buddies" with hidden agendas. It seemed clear to me from the OP's description of the dive that the buddy was determined to get to the bulldozer NO MATTER WHAT THE AGREED DIVE PLAN.

Sure - the plan was pretty open from the get-go, but to make a bee-line for the 'dozer when the plan called for some shallow "get familiar with the new gear time" was a clear violation of the plan.

SO - maybe don't dump the buddy YET. BUT - I would advise having a real good chat with the buddy before the next dive. CLEARLY state the goals. ASK if the buddy has any goals of their own (to clear the air of hidden agendas). Also indicate that yelling because of an incident is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Shoot - the "buddy" was below and away - the OP did the right thing by signaling and surfacing, IMO. The "buddy" should have followed IMMEDIATELY to ensure all was OK (I'm assuming the buddy could see the bubbles from the freeflow, so should have known there was some issue).

Now, if after that, the buddy still yells after a dive that doesn't go according to the buddies "plan", or if the buddy again deviates from the plan, THEN it may be time to label the buddy a dipstick and find another buddy.

However, if the OP can find other persons to dive with, all the better. More experience with lots of buddies is preferred (when possible) IMO.

Cheers,

-S

 

[Piccola]

Interesting, and glad you are alright. I posted some time ago a similar event. I was in 38 degree water at around 50' when my regulator went into freeflow. My buddy was aware when he saw the bubble flow what was happening. He grabbed a hold of my BCD and we began our ascent. I did not opt to switch to my alternate but kept in my primary as I knew I would be able to continue to get air. Cold water diving does present different 'problems' one of which is freeflows. Sometimes a quick push of the purge valve or a forceful thumb in the mouth piece is enough to dislodge the ice formation and stop the flow. As far as buddies go I have been fortunate to have great buddies when problems arise as I did this past weekend when I needed to share air with my buddy and do a rapid ascent from 85' but that is a different story. I have also had the misfortune of having 'ocean' buddies that are nowhere to be found during a dive. Makes you feel very much alone in the big ocean.