Angry

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A retailer should never charge a customer for a product until it is shipped and if it cost them more to ship the BO item seprately, well then that's the expense of not keeping a better grasp of their inventory.
 
mattroz:
It's an online store, the site offered OVERNIGHT shipping... don't blast the OP because he waited. It was a service offered by the website and they didn't follow through. Also, the website offers online purchases, why should he have to call them after!?

I agree. I come from the view point of someone who travels constantly so the whole idea of "planning ahead" is foreign to me. I would LOVE to plan ahead- but, like you, Brandon, if I DO plan ahead it all falls through.

I'm not sure how it can possibly be Brandon's "fault" for waiting until the last minute to buy something. It's not like he got arrested or anything. Griping about an order that got muffed up is the customer's perogative. I'd be pretty ticked, too, especially since they waited too late in the day to tell you about it.

My husband just ordered replacement lights for our under-truck blue lights (you know- the neon-style lights the kids put on their cars...). Everything shipped out fine from one of the retailers but the other retailer waited two days to call and verify that he had made the order- I suppose it's for our own security since the shipping address was not our home address but it messed everything up and ended up coming a day late- the day AFTER we left the shipping destination. Urgh.

Even though YOU waited till the last minute, I totally understand the frustration that comes with EXPECTING to get what you paid for. And, I agree, they should ship the other items for Sat delivery at their cost. I'll be very surprised, however, if they do that.

BOL and happy diving (Saturday or some other time...)
 
Here is an example of how these back order situations come about. And mind you, this IS NOT an isolated incident. This occurs for me as frequently as once a month with various products.

In December of this past year I took and order from the US Military in Bagdhad for 1000 Spare Air units. Submersible Systems shut down assembly of all Spare Airs to fulfill this order by a very expidited deadline. They pillaged every current order in their wharehouse in Huntington Beach that had not shipped, plus every order and unit that was in production AT CHRISTMAS TIME in order to fill this. It wasn't a difficult choice for SS to make. They were going to sell these very popular items during that season of the year regardless of who purchased them.

The downslope effect of this was last winter's shortage of Spare Air 3.0 units at Christmas time.

This was not the fault of the retailers across the country when they had to back order units. It was totally and completely out of their hands. All they could do is make a promise based on the estimated date that SS gave them on when production would be up and running again. These retailers had no idea this was coming as the order I took came very fast, was labled urgent and was processed and approved by the Army very quickly.

In the case of this order, I didn't cause the back order situation. I do not know the particulars. But when a normally stocked item is back ordered by the manucaturer and back ordered for a couple weeks in a row I am reletively certain there has been a good reason for it. It could be something minor like a production shortage, or it could be something very important like helping to keep our troops alive over seas.

The reason Scuba.com charges in advance is 2 fold. Over the years we have worked very closely with a leading internet banking security company to help develop the more commonly used credit card processing systems used today. Upon taking and processing of an order our system performs Billing Address Verification to protect ourselves and our customers from internet ID fraud. This is performed only at the time of sale by the banks. Once this is completed and ONLY once this is completed to the satisfaction of the banks, does your order go to the wharehouse for fullfillment. All items in stock are then pulled for shipping. This ensures your items are YOUR items. They don't get pillaged for other orders. If there is a back ordered item that will be in stock prior to the estimated delivery date of your order you are not contacted regarding this back order. Only when it becomes apparent that your order will not make an estimated need by date is the customer called and emailed.

Over all the system is very efficient and as you can see from a great deal of our supporters here it works very well the large majority of the time. As we are using an ever evolving technology with the Web we strive very hard every day to make adjustments to the system in order to better serve the divers in our community.
 
But what does the military buying 1000 spare air systems have to do w/ you not calling rush shipment client to hammer out the details.

I had a friend place an order with you once for some gloves and fins from me. We had them shipped NDA, and since the fins were not instock, we were billed 2X for the shipping since you sent two different NDA packages.
 
I do most of my communication via email, since I hate waiting for a response or bouncing back and forth between computers and people on hold. Which at times means I can get pretty pissy waiting several days for a reply.

But in other news, I received a couple emails today from scuba.com. The first one didn't make much sense, since I already gave the approval to sub out product to get it to me quicker but anyways it was shipped out tonight via next day delivery.

Now my luck.. Fed Ex will lose it :(
 
Scuba.com:
Here is an example of how these back order situations come about. And mind you, this IS NOT an isolated incident. This occurs for me as frequently as once a month with various products.

In December of this past year I took and order from the US Military in Bagdhad for 1000 Spare Air units. Submersible Systems shut down assembly of all Spare Airs to fulfill this order by a very expidited deadline. They pillaged every current order in their wharehouse in Huntington Beach that had not shipped, plus every order and unit that was in production AT CHRISTMAS TIME in order to fill this. It wasn't a difficult choice for SS to make. They were going to sell these very popular items during that season of the year regardless of who purchased them.

The downslope effect of this was last winter's shortage of Spare Air 3.0 units at Christmas time.

This was not the fault of the retailers across the country when they had to back order units. It was totally and completely out of their hands. All they could do is make a promise based on the estimated date that SS gave them on when production would be up and running again. These retailers had no idea this was coming as the order I took came very fast, was labled urgent and was processed and approved by the Army very quickly.

In the case of this order, I didn't cause the back order situation. I do not know the particulars. But when a normally stocked item is back ordered by the manucaturer and back ordered for a couple weeks in a row I am reletively certain there has been a good reason for it. It could be something minor like a production shortage, or it could be something very important like helping to keep our troops alive over seas.

The reason Scuba.com charges in advance is 2 fold. Over the years we have worked very closely with a leading internet banking security company to help develop the more commonly used credit card processing systems used today. Upon taking and processing of an order our system performs Billing Address Verification to protect ourselves and our customers from internet ID fraud. This is performed only at the time of sale by the banks. Once this is completed and ONLY once this is completed to the satisfaction of the banks, does your order go to the wharehouse for fullfillment. All items in stock are then pulled for shipping. This ensures your items are YOUR items. They don't get pillaged for other orders. If there is a back ordered item that will be in stock prior to the estimated delivery date of your order you are not contacted regarding this back order. Only when it becomes apparent that your order will not make an estimated need by date is the customer called and emailed.

Over all the system is very efficient and as you can see from a great deal of our supporters here it works very well the large majority of the time. As we are using an ever evolving technology with the Web we strive very hard every day to make adjustments to the system in order to better serve the divers in our community.


Did they come to your wharehouse and take all your inventory?? Or are you taking orders and payment for items you don't have? You must think we are a bunch of idiots.


Note to others on the board. He is admitting to taking your money for items he doesn't have in stock, and doesn't know when he'll be able to get. But he has exceuses for it.
 
Nice touch throwing in the military for a pull on the heart strings. That was probably the worst thing I have ever seen by a retailer. I feel the retailer is weak. Very weak!!!
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, If I want something from an on-line retailer, call first to check and see what the actual delivery time is. If I am in a big hurry and have waited to the last minute, a simple call first to see if its in stock or not. Only then will I place the order (or not).

I do not depend on an automated response for accuracy or delivery estimates. On-line retailers tend to stock very little and depend on the manufacturer or distributor to have the inventory. This is one way they can keep the costs below brick and mortar stores. Slamming a retailer for this is, to me, a waste of energy. After all, If I really need it bad, the local brick and mortar is usually available. Most of us who shop online know how it works. Let your fingers do the walking, call first – before you order.

Scuba.com has done a good job for me and their prices are competitive. If I need something, I call then first. I recently ordered a 3mm wetsuit for my lovely bride from them. Henderson expects to have it to them by the 18th, I should have it by the 22nd. I let you all know if it makes it or not.

Dave
 
sbrooks:
Hate to say it - but poor planning. The best way to get something you need for a dive in a couple days (ie. this weekend) is to go into a shop and buy it.. Then you have the tangible product. While I agree your complaints about the shipping are valid - if they don't have it, they don't have it. They should still have shipped the in stock product, or at least called you ASAP to notify you.

You are correct my friend. Can't tell you how many times I've made exactly that point in long, battling threads on this board about the merits of ordering on-line as opposed to walking into your LDS. This same nightmare has happened to me and drove me right off the internet and through the LDS front door when I need something.

And if anyone thinks it's just Scuba.com, I've had the same problems with LeisurePro and others...back when I tried using the net for gear. I spend a little more but now I know what I'm getting and perhaps more importantly, when I'm getting it.
 
Good Morning everybody! My post with the story of the Spare Air was nothing more than an example of how retailers, both online and local dive shops can unexpectedly become back ordered on very common products.

It was also a small look into how we choose to run Scuba.com. Every single company has their own set of rules and policies that they feel work best for them. I explained why there was what you feel a delayed contact regardig your order, and how our system works.

Brandon started this thread with a very good post regarding a transaction with us and how he felt about it and for the most part, it's turned into a long string of posts going on and on about loving or hating thier favorite online retailer and opinions on how an online company should be run. What it all boils down to is all of us online retailers are REAL companies striving to do a good job for their customers.

I'm not sure if Larry remembers me, but I've been in his store. I found him friendly and not offended by my presence when I admitted who I worked for. He showed me and my lady friend around and was very polite about making sure he wasn't stepping on any toes when he tried to get her interested in scuba. I've also visited the shop in NY. And while we all do things differently and with different focus the common thread we possess is that we are all in business to make our customers happy.

We do it with an 11,000+sq ft warehouse, 3 Course Directors from 2 agencies on staff, instructors with industry knowledge and experience not just dive shop sales floor experience, and an IT department that tries to keep pace with some of today's computer and web technology. But even with that it's nearly impossible to keep every item from all 250+ manufacturers we deal with in stock 7 days a week. We are proud to say that we have as much as 75-80% of the items you see on our website in stock at any one time. Bottom line is we have tried very hard since the inception of selling products online (we were one of the very first online retailers) to beat the dive industry stigma of selling scuba equipment online and we work daily to not only maintain what we've acheived but to raise the bar in terms of what we do and offer. And I'm proud to say the staff here does a very, very good job of it.

This is going probably going to be our final post on this thread because it's evolved into more of an argument back and forth on who likes who and why, than a constructive discussion. I'd like to apologize sincerely to the customers we've given a bad experience or fallen short on and I'd like to thank all our happy customers. The business ALL of you have done with us is forever appreciated.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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