And so it begins. Panic in the California dive boat industry

[VE7DAC]

GFCI outlets have a breaker in them. There’s a reset button right on the face.

That's not a real breaker, and won't respond to an overload/overcorrect situation. It only looks for imbalanced current on the line and neutral. It's to detect small (down to 5mA) leakage current to ground, to protect lives in wet environments. Standard thermal magnetic breakers are there to protect the wire.

 

[KenGordon]

For a (highly amusing) explanation of electrical safety features in GB:

This, but especially the extra heat for a given resistance in a 110v installation, make people familiar with U.K. electrics paranoid in the US. Houses have been catching fire due to wiring faults forever, I can easily imagine an unstable structure such as a wooden boat having even more likelihood of developing wiring faults and so being even more at risk of such a fire.

I am not sleeping in a room with forty others and one accessible exit with or without lithium ion batteries on board.

 

[KenGordon]

Looks like the available wattage won't do you much good much longer. Why new EU rules could ban your toaster and kettle by autumn
I'm not very interested in 230 to ground. 480 3 phase is about 277 to ground. Scary, and I've worked with it for 40 years. 2.5mm wire is 14 gauge. We don't run over 15 amps on that and you shouldn't either. Houses that I wire typically have 400 amps in two 42 circuit panels. I never put in less than 200 amps and 42 circuits. More smaller individual circuits makes the need for a fuse at each outlet unnecessary.

Your toaster/kettle link is from 2016, we can still buy 3kw kettles. Letting stuff like that go unchallenged is what what has made the U.K. the sad, billy no-mates of Europe.

A ring has a 32A breaker and handles a bunch of appliances each up to 13A. If you plug in and use three or four kettles at once it will go pop. Immersion heaters and electric cookers get their own hard wired spur.

There will usually be a mains (ie outlets) ring on each floor, possibly another for the kitchen, and a lighting ring for each floor. If something trips you expect to be left with light somewhere and power somewhere.

Previously the RCD was only required for places with water or where an outlet might be used to power something outside, for example a lawnmower. Regulations change, my first house still had 5A round pin sockets made with Bakelite in places.

 

[ajtoady]

The debate on chargers, wiring, fuse vs breakers and such can and will go on forever. I will say one thing concerning all this,,If it is made by man it can and sometimes will fail. There is no guarantee as to the safety, only a track record of events. I have been an electrician/technician for over 45 years and have seen more than my share of "mishaps" from protected circuits and devices. For example, look into lightning protection. There is no plan or device that will provide absolute protection. Just however my $.05, adjusted for inflation.

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

How many watts are your kettles? What size wire do you run on your house circuits? What is your voltage to ground?

2300w.
Most 1.5mm^2 for 10A, some more high power outlets 2,5mm^2 for 16A.
230-240V.

 

[KenGordon]

I agree, assume there is a risk of fire, sinking etc and have an appropriate setup. Obviously try to reduce the chances of bad things happening but also be able to deal with them when they do.

Perhaps the similar boats need to replace the big bunk room with 10 twin cabins made to resist fire plus with proper monitoring and sprinklers, then charge double and move upmarket.

Personally I find that the ancillary costs of diving generally dwarf the cost of the boat. Travel, time off work, gas, food etc all add up. The logistics are also important. An extra few quid for a place overnight is not as important as the hassle of moving expensive kit into a hotel for a night and then getting up at 5am to load it into a boat for an early departure.

How cheap are CA divers?

 

[Popgun Pete]

I agree, assume there is a risk of fire, sinking etc and have an appropriate setup. Obviously try to reduce the chances of bad things happening but also be able to deal with them when they do.

Perhaps the similar boats need to replace the big bunk room with 10 twin cabins made to resist fire plus with proper monitoring and sprinklers, then charge double and move upmarket.

Personally I find that the ancillary costs of diving generally dwarf the cost of the boat. Travel, time off work, gas, food etc all add up. The logistics are also important. An extra few quid for a place overnight is not as important as the hassle of moving expensive kit into a hotel for a night and then getting up at 5am to load it into a boat for an early departure.

How cheap are CA divers?

Probably not so cheap that they want to pay with their lives. Better boats are needed, these older boats have had their day and this disaster has bought it all to a head.

 

[StefinSB]

How cheap are CA divers?

Really?

 

[Wookie]

Probably not so cheap that they want to pay with their lives. Better boats are needed, these older boats have had their day and this disaster has bought it all to a head.

Out of curiosity, and maybe this is a topic for another thread, but what would you build into a new boat that this boat couldn’t have been retrofit to?

This boat could have been built yesterday and the exact same rules would have been followed.

The grandfathering that everyone is jumping on is mostly about fire protection, and requires a CO2 system in the engineroom. If the Conception were built new today, as far as I can tell, it could be built exactly as it was.

 

[Manatee Diver]

If the Conception were built new today, as far as I can tell, it could be built exactly as it was.

One of the articles I read a former USCG inspector said that the Conception was "a compliant death trap."

Personally I don't think we are ever going to get a definitive answer on what caused the fire. But I do think we are going to see some changes my guess:
Immediate:

• No unattended charging for batteries unless it is in some sort of fireproof charging area.
• No berthing of passengers even at dock without some level of crew on board with a watch, but perhaps at a lower level than at sea (like do we really need a captain on board at dock).
• USCG will be more aggressive on ensuring that passenger vessels have an overnight watch and on safety briefings.

6-12 months with no grandfathering:

• All fire alarms must be centrally monitored and if a fire is detected they go off in all compartments (like in commercial buildings)
• Escape hatches must be very clearly marked

Grandfathered for some period but required for all newly built vessels:

• The escape hatch must exit to another compartment separate from the main exit, and must have its own ladder.