And so it begins. Panic in the California dive boat industry

[BRT]

What has that got to do with it? These boats will be out of service or heavily modified if regulations play catch up to the modern reality of what divers use.

Yes, out of business. Without grandfathering pretty much everybody would be out of business. You can't buy new every year.

 

[BRT]

1: 2.5Kw (vs US being less than 1.5Kw)
2: Typical domestic ring main would be 2.5mm2. With a 32A MCB (or RCD)
3. 230V.

Bonus points, 2 phase only exists in countries with 110/120V. Its not needed in the rest of the world (and is a strange thing that us furriners find confusing).

But as a Brit, American standards of electrical safety scare me. Much of what is considered standard practice was banned long ago in the UK. The multi-power strip chain being one of the reasons that all UK plugs have a fuse. You never know what some numpty is going to plug into the power strip and the 'surge protector' is a cheap piece of junk that will often fail to trip in time.

Looks like the available wattage won't do you much good much longer. Why new EU rules could ban your toaster and kettle by autumn
I'm not very interested in 230 to ground. 480 3 phase is about 277 to ground. Scary, and I've worked with it for 40 years. 2.5mm wire is 14 gauge. We don't run over 15 amps on that and you shouldn't either. Houses that I wire typically have 400 amps in two 42 circuit panels. I never put in less than 200 amps and 42 circuits. More smaller individual circuits makes the need for a fuse at each outlet unnecessary.

 

[BRT]

If the lower limit of time between 0 and engulfed of 30 minutes is correct, it needs to be more often in the galley/lounge areas to be useful.




1. That is what my house has.
2. ?
3. I use 230 when I can, but as you say US residences do not use it primarily.



Considering the volume of outlets required in a US residence, using one fuse per outlet would make for a huge service box. And if it is the proper fuse for the wireing, what difference would it how many outlets were on the fuse. Not to mention a lot of the outlets are required by code and not actually used.

One issue is the size of residences, the average US residence is almost twice the size of one in the UK, with new residences getting larger in the US and smaller in the UK. This means there are a lot more outlets in a US home without necessarily any more useage of electricity.

From seeing my daughter and son in laws hous in England, there were few outlets and the necessity for power strips that I don't run into at my home in the US.


Bob

I should have used the sarcasm font. My point was looking 40 feet in each direction is not that hard to do on a regular basis.

 

[Bob DBF]

I should have used the sarcasm font. My point was looking 40 feet in each direction is not that hard to do on a regular basis.

If it started in berthing, you can't see there from the deck, one has to drop into the compartment. That may be where it started, and I don't know the watches, for the boats that actually had them, even went below.

Bob

 

[NAM001]

Even the term watch is a term that hs to be defined. A guy can inspect the boat ans never get out of his chair if they implement video monitoring. that fosters the sleep problem again. Make a physical tour every 2 hours and video monitor continuous will become one option that will be tried.

Next the hotel option on the boats will not be a problem..... on a 3 day trip you pay for 4 days which includes berthing onboard the night before. 4th day being 30 dollars,,, +/-...

 

[Bob DBF]

Next the hotel option on the boats will not be a problem..... on a 3 day trip you pay for 4 days which includes berthing onboard the night before. 4th day being 30 dollars,,, +/-...

It might not just be about money. It will depend on whether the USCG looks at that as carrying passengers for hire, and therefore has to have the crew aboard. Earlier I discussed this with Wookie, and he dosen't know. Since his crew was onboard when passengers were bunking the night before it was a non issue to him and did not need the USCG to clarify.

The reason the USCG would look at the crew as nessary, even at the dock, would be to have trained personnel to evacuate passengers and fight the casulty while doing that if necessary, the same as at sea.

At that point it becomes a manpower problem for the SoCal boats. Crewing is seasonal due to weather. During the summer the crew gets a night, and possibly a day off, between runs. Having no time off would be unacceptable, and hiring two crews, just to have overnight bunking would be expensive. If you could get qualified personnel to do it. A qualified Captain and Mate will be the biggest issue.


Bob

 

[cerich]

It might not just be about money. It will depend on whether the USCG looks at that as carrying passengers for hire, and therefore has to have the crew aboard. Earlier I discussed this with Wookie, and he dosen't know. Since his crew was onboard when passengers were bunking the night before it was a non issue to him and did not need the USCG to clarify.

The reason the USCG would look at the crew as nessary, even at the dock, would be to have trained personnel to evacuate passengers and fight the casulty while doing that if necessary, the same as at sea.

At that point it becomes a manpower problem for the SoCal boats. Crewing is seasonal due to weather. During the summer the crew gets a night, and possibly a day off, between runs. Having no time off would be unacceptable, and hiring two crews, just to have overnight bunking would be expensive. If you could get qualified personnel to do it. A qualified Captain and Mate will be the biggest issue.


Bob

Conceptions COI allowed them reduced crew by 1 alongside when berthing is occupied. In other words they needed 3 crew with one of them awake and roving per their COI.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

1. Which one? A US 1000-1500 watt kettle? Or a UK/EU 230V/2500W unit?
2. Its a bit beyond the scope of this discussion, but UK domestic electrics make use of something called a ring main, which I don't think is used in the US. All of the outlets are on a ring that connects to the panel at each end. It means you can draw much higher currents before exceeding the rating of the conductors. Plus they switched a while ago to metric conductor numbers, so no more AWG/SWG.
3. It only exists because the current needs at 120V get a bit impractical once you have larger appliances (Kettles being an odd cultural outlier), like washing machines or driers.

And you misunderstand the fuse thing. Its not a fuse in every outlet (outlets do not have fuses, in fact because of the ring main, a whole rooms outlets will be on a single fuse (sized to protect the wiring in the walls only).
There is a fuse in PLUGS. Sized depending on the device attached to the plug. So a table lamp might have a 1A fuse (or smaller if you can get one). This makes it highly unlikely that you will exceed the rating of the devices cable before the fuse fails.
Its not perfect, but its substantially safer than the US system. You have the smallest fuse possible protecting every single device.

And the outlet thing is both cultural, cost based and stupid. But even then, the power strips still have real fuses in every device.

There is also mandated annual testing of electrical appliances in any workplace (which is something I did a decade or so ago).

GFCI outlets have a breaker in them. There’s a reset button right on the face.

 

[NAM001]

It might not just be about money. It will depend on whether the USCG looks at that as carrying passengers for hire, and therefore has to have the crew aboard. Earlier I discussed this with Wookie, and he dosen't know. Since his crew was onboard when passengers were bunking the night before it was a non issue to him and did not need the USCG to clarify.

The reason the USCG would look at the crew as nessary, even at the dock, would be to have trained personnel to evacuate passengers and fight the casulty while doing that if necessary, the same as at sea.

At that point it becomes a manpower problem for the SoCal boats. Crewing is seasonal due to weather. During the summer the crew gets a night, and possibly a day off, between runs. Having no time off would be unacceptable, and hiring two crews, just to have overnight bunking would be expensive. If you could get qualified personnel to do it. A qualified Captain and Mate will be the biggest issue.


Bob

no matter what it becomes an issue of bottom line $.

 

[NAM001]

Conceptions COI allowed them reduced crew by 1 alongside when berthing is occupied. In other words they needed 3 crew with one of them awake and roving per their COI.

looks like bobs quote not mine