And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!

[Genesis]

I'm not asking for a "mail order" price.

I'm asking for an equivalent VALUE.

Look, I owe that shop nothing. They exist to serve me, and the other divers who come in there. Not the other way around.

The day that people think they're not getting that service is the day they die. That is true for all businesses, no matter what you sell.

I fully recognize that they could not meet the price in dollars alone.

The interesting thing is that they apparently didn't care about the business at all, because from my pattern of purchases in there (they know me VERY well; I'm in there all the time for fills; in fact, my signature fills a very significant portion of their last month's Nitrox log) it should have been instantly obvious to them that throwing a fill card my way for my favorite type of gas would both "bridge the gap" and result in a closed sale. They wouldn't have gotten "all the way there", but they certainly could have made the case.

More importantly, I would have bought it.

It would be little or no skin off their nose. A cost for those fills of a few bucks. They would have made a profit (and a good one at that) on the transmitter, all said and done (even with the imputed cost of the fill card.) And they'd have me in there at least 10 more times, during which they could attempt to do the same thing again.

In another 5 trips or so (two tanks each) they might well have been able to do that. But even if they did not, it would have set a nice example that there was a symbiosis between us - that meeting the customer's expectations while still making a profit is good for both of us....

Its called salesmanship and making an effort to build a relationship and give your customers a reason to continue to buy from you - all the while making money.

 

[Cave Diver]

Genesis once bubbled...
The interesting thing is that they apparently didn't care about the business at all, because from my pattern of purchases in there (they know me VERY well; I'm in there all the time for fills; in fact, my signature fills a very significant portion of their last month's Nitrox log) it should have been instantly obvious to them that throwing a fill card my way for my favorite type of gas would both "bridge the gap" and result in a closed sale. They wouldn't have gotten "all the way there", but they certainly could have made the case.

More importantly, I would have bought it.

I can't speak for your LDS, but my experience with dive shops has been that they are not "trained salesmen." Instead, it's usually just a couple of guys that loved diving and took that route to immerse themselves in the sport.

And again, I can't speak for your LDS, but none of the ones I have ever visited seem to be making tons of money. I think it is a pretty accepted fact, just based on the threads I have read on this board, that dive professionals aren't in it for the money, because quite frankly, there isn't that much money in it.

So, given that scenario, I find it hard to believe that

it should have been instantly obvious to them that throwing a fill card my way

would have been a satisfactory solution to you. Chances are that since they are not "professional salesmen" the thought never crossed their mind. Perhaps you should have indicated to them that you would be willing to accept a compromise of that sort.

And please dont take that to meant that I feel you should beg them to find ways to keep your business. But sometimes people dont see things the same way and a gentle nudge might be necessary.

I have had a similar situation at my LDS. It's just a small shop, owned by two instructors. The majority partner (and most of his customers) really has no interest in the type of diving that I do. He keeps the store stocked based on his customers demands. Often, things I am interested in are special orders only. He knows however, that I am a serious customer and that if given the choice, I would rather buy from my LDS rather than online.

Sometimes he can work deals for me, sometimes not. He always keeps me informed of any specials or closeouts that the manufacturers offer and does his best to pass some of the savings on to me. He has also me out by allowing me the use of tools, facilities and training manuals to learn how to service my gear. In exchange, I have serviced a few for him.

If you are a serious customer, and it sounds as if you are, vs. the avg recreational diver who only comes in once or twice a year, I would suggest you bring up some of those alternatives to him. There are many benefits that a regular customer can bring to a diveshop, but they might not realize that until you point it out.

Instead of telling us, try telling him...

 

[Genesis]

that as the guy gets done taking my money for the fill I just bought, having effectively chased me away over $100, it wasn't obvious to him at that instant that he just took 10% of the difference between us in the negotiation 3 mintues earlier and put it in the till?

You gotta be kidding me.

The message sent to me, as a customer, was received LOUD AND CLEAR.

"This is our price. It is non-negotiable. We will hide behind our unholy price-fixing agreement and claim that we will lose our dealership if we compromise. In truth this simply is our price."

Such a message, when you've been told that the same product is available for $100 less, requires no further negotiation.

So why post here?

To point out that this store, here in Destin, threw away a sale worth to them, about $400, (assuming the fill card "costs" them about half of its face $80 value) on a product that probably cost them about $275-300.

In other words, they threw away $100 in pure profit today.

To further point out that on the upcoming purchase of about $600 worth of tanks, I'm not even sure that I will give them the opportunity to make that sale, since there is little point if there is no way to "get there from here". I may as well buy from the known source at the known price (which, by the way, is only a few bucks more than LP wants for the same tank) by getting in my car and driving over there. Yeah, its an hour away. So what. There's a nice restaurant and bar over there that I like anyway.

That other store might even be a Suunto Dealer. I guess I'll have to find out, eh? Maybe I can get the $100 difference in something else that I need OVER THERE while buying the tanks, eh?

Yep... just might be able to do that...

PS: For the "shop owner" who wanted to know what the hour's wear and tear, plus gas, on my car is worth? The shop that didn't want to make the deal with me today is 20 minutes away (one direction) AND requires that I cross a toll bridge - in each direction. There is no toll bridge between me and the other shop. So much for THAT argument.

 

[SMKChef]

Genesis once bubbled...
I'm not asking for a "mail order" price.

I'm asking for an equivalent VALUE.

Look, I owe that shop nothing. They exist to serve me, and the other divers who come in there. Not the other way around.

The day that people think they're not getting that service is the day they die. That is true for all businesses, no matter what you sell.
--SNIP--
Its called salesmanship and making an effort to build a relationship and give your customers a reason to continue to buy from you - all the while making money.

Genesis, we must be related!! Even Pug said he thought we were smoking the same dope. hehe.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I am so tired of hearing this "warranty" crap. I know for a fact that there is a certain very big company that will honor the warranty for their products purchased from overseas. I can't get free parts for annual service but if my equipment breaks because it is not manufactured correctly this company will honor the warranty.

When the dive shops in town go out of business, Genesis and I will be there to purchase their compressors and then start selling air out of our garages. We won't sell equipment except the stuff we purchased for pennies on the dollar from that bust LDS that we sell on EBay. We can't sell it as "authorized dealers" but we can dump it on the net.

I am getting tired of reading about how we all "NEED" LDSs. If every LDS goes out of business in my town, someone will sell air without being an authorized dealer of any equipment.

Funny, I just got a great deal on a Vytec also for a lot less than retail, so I need a transmitter as well.

 

[norcaldiver]

Genesis once bubbled...



Then again, maybe they think like you and I should avoid them - with your kind of attitude your shop should be empty.

Think like me? You're the one that started this thread with the whining about how the big bad shop won't risk loosing the eniter dealership for $100.

I'm not trying to be mean about it or say that's the deal take it or leave it, I'm just saying if all the dive shops but one went out of biz, don't you think that "one" would charge you whant they wanted? And, if all the LDSs go under, do you think LP would give you a good deal...no way, you'd be paying alot more becasue they would know you have nowhere else to get it.

Like it was mentioned by someone else....hit them up for something else, ask about the nitrox card, or a guage protector and a clip for it, or something.....

Oh yeah, I'm not an owner, just a guy that works part time to afford my gear

 

[SMKChef]

Cave Diver once bubbled...


He has also me out by allowing me the use of tools, facilities and training manuals to learn how to service my gear. In exchange, I have serviced a few for him.

Um, isn't this against the rules for an untrained Brand-X service person to service Brand-X equipment? Haven't I seen gazillions of posts about "How do I become a Brand-X repair tech?" on this board? Who will be responsible for the gear you service for the LDS if someone gets hurt using this equipment? I don't think this LDS owner knows anything about the law either.

 

[raxafarian]

the only reason I can figure for your continuing rants, is that the LDS that has upset you so much reads this board? And you just want to take potshots at him and remind him that you won't be spending money at his shop anymore?

You have a LDS an hour away that you like? Well, what's the big deal? Go there and be happy. Heck, there is no shop closer than an hour to me, and that probably applies to many divers. Just make them your LDS and it seems to me that everything will be ok.

It's ok to not like a particular shop. Take your business elsewhere. That's your choice. What other reason do you have to keep posting this continuing saga with the LDS that has dissed you?

The LDS is locked into their agreements with certain manufacturers. Could they have chosen to give you some freebies rather than reduce the price more than 10% below list? Yes. I AGREE that would have seemed fair. I agree that you should shop elsewhere anytime you are not happy with the service you receive.

Heck...you can't even post the name here (or you shouldn't), because THE LDS HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG. They could have handled it better, and would have been smart to, but why continue telling us that some LDS's don't give you a warm, fuzzy feeling?

Go shop at the other store that will deal with you. You have the solution right in front of you

 

[AllenG]

Now I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV), but isn't illegal to engage in vertical price fixing (e.g., manufacturer setting minumum resale price) and to threaten/effect termination of a distributorship unless a reseller maintains a minimum price. I thought either of these actions were considered "per se" violations of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.

You may recall that Ninetendo got nailed when it "encouraged" its resellers to maintain a certain sale price. And although they admitted to "no wrongdoing," Universal, Sony, BMG, Warner, EMI, Musicland, Transworld Entertainment and Tower Records recently agreed to a $67.4 million cash settlement for payments (in the form of subsidized advertising) to retailers that agreed to not sell CDs below a minumum price established by the music companies.

Perhaps one of the venerable attorneys that frequents Scubaboard could provide a more informed perspective and/or explain how the particulars between Genesis' LDS and the manufacturer line up against current case law.

 

[Genesis]

reads this board or not.

If they do, perhaps this is a wake-up call to them - a specific instance, and a specific opportunity - to make a sale and become a bit more educated as to why a LOT of business has walked in - and back out - their door.

If they don't, then it still serves as an example to the rest of the LDSs out there as to WHY your customers are buying from LP, and WHY LP is selling 100x as much stuff as you are.

It ain't because they're in NYC.

Its because you are NOT providing a better VALUE than they are.

Either way, it serves a valuable purpose.

 

[SMKChef]

Cave Diver once bubbled...


I can't speak for your LDS, but my experience with dive shops has been that they are not "trained salesmen." Instead, it's usually just a couple of guys that loved diving and took that route to immerse themselves in the sport.

And again, I can't speak for your LDS, but none of the ones I have ever visited seem to be making tons of money. I think it is a pretty accepted fact, just based on the threads I have read on this board, that dive professionals aren't in it for the money, because quite frankly, there isn't that much money in it.

What kind of person goes into business to NOT make money?? I would like to read the business plan they presented to the bank to get the loan to start the business.

Business plan for Loser's Dive Shop

We are starting a dive business because we love to dive.

We are not starting a dive business to make money so don't expect to have this loan paid back.

The dive business is a dog and only fools would open a shop to sell and repair equipment and train new divers.

Only the big manufacturers make money selling dive equipment to dive shops who sell at fixed prices. So we will need a line of credit to buy stuff to sell in our shop. No one will buy our equipment because we will make deals with these big corporations and sell our souls so that we can hang their equipment in our shop.

We will have no control over pricing, sales, organization or customer satisfaction. We will pass this control on to the manufacturer.

Oh, and by the way, we have no idea how to run a business.

Please, please, I can't stop laughing. They may not become millionaires--only the guys who own LeisurePro will reach that landmark--but they certainly are not starving!!