anarchy in the compressor room

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run4yurlife

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islets of langerhanns
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hello

i am in disagreement with the manager of my local dive shop (a PADI 5 star idc center) over what constitutes responsible operation of a compressor providing both air and EAN mixes to customers and students of the dive shop and guests of the resort it supplies with tanks.

in recent days i have been observing the activities of the tank filler and i have noticed several behaviors that forum members might like to comment on:

the operator is a young local, the product of one of the worst performing education systems in the world, who has received no formal training in gas blending and has no concept of the dangers involved with the use of pressurized o2. he is not a diver and he has no idea why we "add nitrous" (his words) to the tanks and he is completely incapable of working out an equivalent air depth

the operator restricts his maintenance activities to a daily oil level check and infrequent venting of water separators. the desiccant and activated charcoal filter cartridge had not been inspected since installation some months ago, it was found to be improperly seated on a defective washer and saturated with emulsified oil which was passing freely through the filling whips

the operator is a subscriber to the hot fast fill foetid water bath school of thought routinely overfilling tanks by up to 20% (3600psig to manufacturers 3000psig stamp)

the operator routinely wanders away from the compressor room to chat on his phone or lie in a hammock for 10 to 15 minutes at a time whilst o2 is being fed into the nitrox stick through a defective (definitely not o2 clean) regulator

the operator routinely attaches a mix of EAN tanks and "normal" air to the fill station manifold (there are 5 outlets/whips with no check valves)

the operator makes no attempt to measure the contents of an EAN tank (pressure or o2 %age) prior to filling. upon completion of fill he writes on the tank the %o2 as given by the analyzer on the compressor intake without checking the actual contents of the tank. no other information is provided to the user of the tank

the shop´s o2 analyzers (there are 2) do not agree with each other, sometimes displaying a 2 to 3% discrepancy when measuring the same tank. they are not stored properly when not in use and have been displaying the o2 content of the compressor room atmosphere for several months whilst picking up whatever contaminants are present

no current air analysis certificate is displayed nor does one exist. a sampling kit is kept in the office but has not been used because it is deemed too complicated to use and "the results will take 6 months to get here anyway"

anyway, back to my dispute with the manager; during my recent involvement i have personally measured the o2 content of several EAN tanks to be 38 or 39% and several air tanks to be between 23 and 29% which had been used by resort divers. i expressed the opinion that standards had been breached and requirements and common sense ignored which led to a lively discussion and this posting. the manager´s position is that PADI requirements for 5 star idc center status are merely easily misinterpret-able guidelines and that sending an unsuspecting diver down with a significantly enriched mix is not an incident worthy of note; the onus of responsibility in this case rests, apparently, on the end user.

in summary;

does PADI endorse the filling of EAN tanks by somebody completely unqualified to do so?

does PADI have any rigid requirements to be met by a subscribing dive center?

should a reputable dive center allow any of the activities listed above to occur?

does a diver have a reasonable right to expect a competently filled tank of clean dry air without having to worry about o2 toxicity?

if a compressor room explodes and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
 
Wow! But then Padi no longer requires gas sample checks, didn't enforce that when they had it on the rules, and what rules they do have are more suggestions. Sounds like a horrible accident waiting to happen.

Kind of drives home the need to not trust tanks...
I recently calibrated my CO tester but am waiting on new ones to be out soon; and

I just ordered a new sensor for my Oxygen analyzer that I always take.​
Sounds like your air divers need both too. :confused:
 
Wow! But then Padi no longer requires gas sample checks, didn't enforce that when they had it on the rules, and what rules they do have are more suggestions. Sounds like a horrible accident waiting to happen.

Kind of drives home the need to not trust tanks...
I recently calibrated my CO tester but am waiting on new ones to be out soon; and

I just ordered a new sensor for my Oxygen analyzer that I always take.
Sounds like your air divers need both too. :confused:
What did those analyzers run at again? couple hundred usd? That makes a nice additional sale for the dive shops just from making sure 21% isnt neccesarily 21% and not neccesarily free of CO..
 
What did those analyzers run at again? couple hundred usd? That makes a nice additional sale for the dive shops just from making sure 21% isnt neccesarily 21% and not neccesarily free of CO..
The o2 analyzer I use is the Analox O2EII and the prices have come down quite a bit. $230 thru Amazon shipped by Leisure Pro which should include the sensor save, and you really want that. Or $245 at Leisure Pro including sensor saver and pelican box. I asked Scuba Toys to match some prices and throw in free freight since I have to pay Texas taxes like on the sensor I ordered, but they did better than that. I did remind him I was on SB. :D

CO testers start at $130, but you really need to spend $200 or $300 to set up right. Maybe we will see a combination unit sometime, but for now - I still want to dive safe air, and there is only one way to know.

Neither Padi or even DAN seems interested in getting involved with this issue as that would make diving look less safe, bad for new business you know - even tho true at times.
 
the manager´s position is that PADI requirements for 5 star idc center status are merely easily misinterpret-able guidelines and that sending an unsuspecting diver down with a significantly enriched mix is not an incident worthy of note; the onus of responsibility in this case rests, apparently, on the end user.
He's correct. the end user has the primary responsibility to test the mix and know what they got.

this is obviously (from hearing one side of the story) a very sloppy operation but the risk is more to the operator than to the divers. IN principle, no tank of nitrox should leave the shop unless the end user tests it on the spot and notes the mix in a log book. I bet that doesn't happen either but it should.

should a reputable dive center allow any of the activities listed above to occur?
Well.... the real question here is whether a reputable dive centre would *want* to have this happening. If what you say is all true then at some point there will probably be a fire or an explosion which will be the end of the shop. Without making sure that end-users are testing their mix before leaving the shop with the tanks, then there is obviously a risk that a diver will get in problems because of it. Ultimately it's the diver's responsibility but a shop's reputation is never helped when they sell something to somone and they hurt themselves with it.

does a diver have a reasonable right to expect a competently filled tank of clean dry air without having to worry about o2 toxicity?
Ordinarily air and nitrox buffers are kept separate. Clearly this is one of those things that will damage the reputation of the shop if divers are getting nitrox when they asked for air or the air is contaminated with oil from a dirty compressor.

if a compressor room explodes and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

it will definitely make a sound. Maybe one like this

wwwwwooooOOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHH! (pause) KAAAABLAAAAAAAAAAAM!!!!!

There will be nothing left. The question in my mind is how far away from the shop is next shop or residence?

R..
 
Run, don't walk ... far away!
 
He's correct. the end user has the primary responsibility to test the mix and know what they got.
Two problems as I understood the post...
Air divers are unknowingly getting nitrox, and

The nitrox analyzers do not agree.​
How many traveling divers carry their own o2 analyzers like I do, much less CO testers...?
 
Two problems as I understood the post...
Air divers are unknowingly getting nitrox, and​


That's what I read out of it too. That is, of course, bad bad bad. You shouldn't have to expect air divers to have to test their tanks. The buffers should be physically separate to avoid any possibility of this happening.

The nitrox analyzers do not agree.
How many traveling divers carry their own o2 analyzers like I do, much less CO testers...?

Well... to me, this is pretty black and white. If you don't have your own analyzer and you know where it's been and that's it properly maintained then you're diving air.

When I dive nitrox, I ask them what they think the mix is, then I test it with their analyzer and again with mine. That should give three numbers that are pretty close if it's not then you obviously get alarm bells. Locally I get my nitrox from a shop that's never been off by more than 1% but they can only fill EAN32 and EAN36. In another case I got a stage bottle filled at shop where the operator made a mistake reading the table (they blend fill) I asked for a 50% fill and when I tested it, it was 80%. I think someone just misread the table but that's why you need to always test it.

R..
 
Well... to me, this is pretty black and white. If you don't have your own analyzer and you know where it's been and that's it properly maintained then you're diving air.
Except at this place.

I have been lax on this at times, using the operators analyzer. If it's Analox, I think it's going to be accurate as I think I trust their sensors to be so or simply fail. Neat that the prices have come down so.
 
Run, don't walk ... far away!

Second that!!! Run fast really fast!! I wouldn't let this dude put air in my tanks never mind "nitrous".
 
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