An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

[sheeper]

Since Carney first published his letter I have been following this topic closely. In addition to the boards I have actively and independently sought out clarification and details so as to better assess for myself the entire situation. I can tell you that it has been a tremendously informative process although I have had to wade through tons of chaff - which I am sure that many followers of these threads can appreciate. While the discussions often delve into the speculative or irrelevant, I have found a few very useful revelations.

First and foremost, Carney's letter is a prime example that a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted for anything that you read on the internet (I do realize that is a statement of the obvious). It has also significantly changed my view of TDI/SDI. While I used to have a fairly positive view of that organization, I can tell you that my opinion has dramatically changed.

Because of Carney's letter, I believe:
(1) Brian Carney is a liar.
(2) Brian Carney is a coward. He has had ample opportunity to either counter PADI's statement or clarify his own letter. He has done neither. TDI/SDI has also moderated comments on his letter to only publish those that are supportive of his lies.
(3) Brian Carney is a despicable human being. It appears to me that he has tried to distort the facts around the tragic death of a child to advance his own agenda.
(4) As an organization, TDI/SDI has tacitly endorsed Carney's letter and therefore are equally as despicable.

I reserve the right to amend my opinions should new facts arise but based on what I know today, I am comfortable with my conclusions.

wow. clearly you don't actually know Brian.
Brian wrote this letter leading up to DEMA because the industry HAS to address this. Yes, Brian leads a competitor to PADI but who else could write a piece that would be taken seriously?
Brian also said that he was not going to continue the conversation as I suspect he knew it would lead to pissing and name calling.
TDI/SDI has exceptionally high standards and the TDI/SDI I have met have both a passion for the dive industry AND a passion for excellence.

 

[29Clyde]

wow. clearly you don't actually know Brian.
Brian wrote this letter leading up to DEMA because the industry HAS to address this. Yes, Brian leads a competitor to PADI but who else could write a piece that would be taken seriously?
Brian also said that he was not going to continue the conversation as I suspect he knew it would lead to pissing and name calling.
TDI/SDI has exceptionally high standards and the TDI/SDI I have met have both a passion for the dive industry AND a passion for excellence.

I know Brian Carney by his words and actions. How better to judge a man?

And what exactly is it that the industry needs to address? That there are instructors who violate standards and put students lives at risk? How exactly would penning a letter filled with incorrect assertions help address this in any way? Especially when all he did was attack PADI for what seems to be taking a very prudent course of action.

And I am sorry, but Brian started this by penning a letter that was verifiably false when he wrote it and now he wants to run away? In my eye that is the mark of a coward.

Just as you are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.

 

[scoobydrew]

Brian also said that he was not going to continue the conversation as I suspect he knew it would lead to pissing and name calling.
TDI/SDI has exceptionally high standards and the TDI/SDI I have met have both a passion for the dive industry AND a passion for excellence.

According to PADIs response Carney has openly published what has turned out to be bad information. Perhaps lies perhaps he was misinformed but with the facts as they are now, what he said was wrong. Whether he intends to continue the argument or not I think he has an obligation to address the negative accusations he made and apologize.

 

[Omisson]

Since Carney first published his letter I have been following this topic closely. In addition to the boards I have actively and independently sought out clarification and details so as to better assess for myself the entire situation. I can tell you that it has been a tremendously informative process although I have had to wade through tons of chaff - which I am sure that many followers of these threads can appreciate. While the discussions often delve into the speculative or irrelevant, I have found a few very useful revelations.

First and foremost, Carney's letter is a prime example that a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted for anything that you read on the internet (I do realize that is a statement of the obvious). It has also significantly changed my view of TDI/SDI. While I used to have a fairly positive view of that organization, I can tell you that my opinion has dramatically changed.

Because of Carney's letter, I believe:
(1) Brian Carney is a liar.
(2) Brian Carney is a coward. He has had ample opportunity to either counter PADI's statement or clarify his own letter. He has done neither. TDI/SDI has also moderated comments on his letter to only publish those that are supportive of his lies.
(3) Brian Carney is a despicable human being. It appears to me that he has tried to distort the facts around the tragic death of a child to advance his own agenda.
(4) As an organization, TDI/SDI has tacitly endorsed Carney's letter and therefore are equally as despicable.

I reserve the right to amend my opinions should new facts arise but based on what I know today, I am comfortable with my conclusions.

I'll be the first to say that I thought the letter from SDI/TDI was inappropriate and factually wrong. I also have been a vocal PADI defender throughout these threads based on my understandings of the facts AND in no small part, the Law. But this post swings the pendulum way too far the other direction.

I am sure Brian was given wrong information that precipitated the letter, and no doubt the timing was to cause a stir at DEMA. But that could be for both good "discuss the issues" reasons AND Slickster not so good Marketing ideas....it needed not be either or. It can and very well may be both.

It would also not surprise me if Brian eventually spoke with counsel who advised him NOT to comment further - which may be why there was not response. If I were counseling him legally I certainly would have suggested standing down. I also would have never recommended sending out the first letter, no matter what the rationale behind it was, if I were his attorney.

TDI has a strong well thought out technical instruction system, and works diligently to improve it. The industry, SDI/TDI and all Tec divers have Brian to thank for much of that. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I'm content to see the record set straight, the facts come out, and the industry reset the civility button and discuss the issues of common concern to us all.

What irks me are those who blindly follow partisan lines and couldn't gather a coherent independent thought if their life depended on it... And the problem is many of them are instructors, and some other persons life may well depend on their judgment.....

---------- Post added December 22nd, 2014 at 08:55 PM ----------

wow. clearly you don't actually know Brian.
Brian wrote this letter leading up to DEMA because the industry HAS to address this. Yes, Brian leads a competitor to PADI but who else could write a piece that would be taken seriously?
Brian also said that he was not going to continue the conversation as I suspect he knew it would lead to pissing and name calling.
TDI/SDI has exceptionally high standards and the TDI/SDI I have met have both a passion for the dive industry AND a passion for excellence.

Just to be fair... It was Brian who started the pissing and name calling with inaccurate facts in the first place, no?

So How do you take a completely factually inaccurate harangue seriously- regardless of who says it? If Carl Sagan wrote a letter decrying NASA because the space shuttle blew up, I'd take it seriously too... I know that he wouldn't lie or make factually inaccurate statements in order to make his point... See the difference?

TDI does indeed have a sterling reputation for Tec training, and I am grateful for that. I have my highest non overhead rating with TDI - Trimix, because they are solid.

But we can't whitewash facts either.

 

[29Clyde]

I'll be the first to say that I thought the letter from SDI/TDI was inappropriate and factually wrong. I also have been a vocal PADI defender throughout these threads based on my understandings of the facts AND in no small part, the Law. But this post swings the pendulum way too far the other direction.

I am sure Brian was given wrong information that precipitated the letter, and no doubt the timing was to cause a stir at DEMA. But that could be for both good "discuss the issues" reasons AND Slickster not so good Marketing ideas....it needed not be either or. It can and very well may be both.

It would also not surprise me if Brian eventually spoke with counsel who advised him NOT to comment further - which may be why there was not response. If I were counseling him legally I certainly would have suggested standing down. I also would have never recommended sending out the first letter, no matter what the rationale behind it was, if I were his attorney.

TDI has a strong well thought out technical instruction system, and works diligently to improve it. The industry, SDI/TDI and all Tec divers have Brian to thank for much of that. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I'm content to see the record set straight, the facts come out, and the industry reset the civility button and discuss the issues of common concern to us all.

What irks me are those who blindly follow partisan lines and couldn't gather a coherent independent thought if their life depended on it... And the problem is many of them are instructors, and some other persons life may well depend on their judgment.....

When I made my first post I realized that some, and possibly many, would take exception to my opinions. But that is exactly what they are - my opinions. I am not asking anyone to agree with me but I think that if Carney and other like minded people are following these threads, they could benefit from hearing a diversity of responses to their letter.

It is good to hear that TDI has done good things for our sport - it is unfortunate that my first significant encounter with their agency is through this letter. My view is currently tainted by Carney's actions - maybe someday that will change.

I am not sure if you are accusing me of blindly following partisan lines but I can assure you that if that is what you believe, you are definitely mistaken. I have a strong disdain for people who use tragedies and appeals to emotion to further their own cause. Had Carney's letter been focused on the shortcomings of the DSD program, CESAs, or other safety issues with PADI's programs and standards, he may have found a more sympathetic audience in me. What I read in his letter seems to be entirely self serving - not the catalyst for a meaningful dialogue.

 

[Omisson]

When I made my first post I realized that some, and possibly many, would take exception to my opinions. But that is exactly what they are - my opinions. I am not asking anyone to agree with me but I think that if Carney and other like minded people are following these threads, they could benefit from hearing a diversity of responses to their letter.

It is good to hear that TDI has done good things for our sport - it is unfortunate that my first significant encounter with their agency is through this letter. My view is currently tainted by Carney's actions - maybe someday that will change.

I am not sure if you are accusing me of blindly following partisan lines but I can assure you that if that is what you believe, you are definitely mistaken. I have a strong disdain for people who use tragedies and appeals to emotion to further their own cause. Had Carney's letter been focused on the shortcomings of the DSD program, CESAs, or other safety issues with PADI's programs and standards, he may have found a more sympathetic audience in me. What I read in his letter seems to be entirely self serving - not the catalyst for a meaningful dialogue.

No you were not who I was alluding to.

I hope in time you discover the many good things there are about TDI.

And Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No problem there at all!

 

[The Chairman]

What irks me are those who blindly follow partisan lines and couldn't gather a coherent independent thought if their life depended on it... And the problem is many of them are instructors, and some other persons life may well depend on their judgment.....

I would hope that the combatants in all this would realize that many of the vocal in this and other threads bear them no ill will. We just can't blindly follow them when we think they're wrong, wrong, wrong. We're going to speak our mind even if it makes them uncomfortable. It's feedback and it's valuable if you want to understand what we think is acceptable and what is not. You don't work in a vacuum and when you eff up, we're going to take notice and comment publicly. Getting mad and calling my friends won't fix this. You're your own worst enemy: not me.

 

[redacted]

No what you said was:

"I do understand risk management. When you have unacceptable risks (unnecessary death is in that category) even with very low probabilities of occurrence, they earn a high priority for management. "

Please explain how there is an "unacceptable risk" in the PADI DSD program.

Then you said this little gem:

"I'm not saying PADI is wrong. I don't really know what they are doing. But I am really shocked at the attitude of some of the instructors on this board. The avoidable death of a student should not be acceptable collateral damage while you make a few extra bucks on the side."

How was the death "avoidable" on the Program/Agency side of this?

All available information points to instructor error and/or potentially a medical condition.

You do know that PADI makes no money on the DSD program, right? The only one who does directly is the instructor.

"There is no doubt in my mind that more can be done. But there seems to be little interest."

Maybe because instructors analyzing this tragedy are pretty isolated into two camps:
The anti-PADI crowd which thinks it's all about student ratios
And
Everyone else who sees it as a series of instructor and participant errors

But that's too simple for some folks who think there is a solution to every problem. Sometimes there isn't. And in this case- the blame is squarely on instructor and student error. The only way to fix the instructor error is unfortunately post facto- because how could anyone know the series of mistakes made that lead to this- especially since they violated training standards he was supposed to maintain. all the facts claimed by opposing counsel in other threads go right out the window with it.!

Silly me. I thought everyone considered accidental death to be unacceptable. You don't???

No doubt, the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility belongs to the instructor. But I don't believe for a minute that this instructor has not been conducting DSD with the BSA at that location for some time. While the standards leave a bit to be desired, enforcement seems to have been lacking.

 

[29Clyde]

Silly me. I thought everyone considered accidental death to be unacceptable. You don't???

No doubt, the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility belongs to the instructor. But I don't believe for a minute that this instructor has not been conducting DSD with the BSA at that location for some time. While the standards leave a bit to be desired, enforcement seems to have been lacking.

Awap, after reading your many posts, I am reminded of a speech given by one of my favorite presidents. Here is an excerpt:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "

Teddy Roosevelt - 1910

 

[The Chairman]

So, you want a Scuba Police force. Sounds like fun. Every agency will have to hire at least ten times their current employee number to be able to enforce this. Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to pay for their travel? Their kibbles? Their gear? Their air? Their hospital bills when the shops shoot the poor bastards? How effective can or will it be?

As you say, the current system is not perfect, but it seems to be more than adequate. You can't completely eliminate death from any activity. You would have to eliminate death for that to happen and you're not up to that challenge. We're not up to that challenge. We'd end up looking like the OSHA Cowboy I posted earlier.

Now, I would love to hear some reasonable ideas to improve safety, but first we have to deal with the misinformation presented by Carney's letter. We have to establish honor, reason and truth to this process before you, or some other well meaning but myopic person has us chasing our tails in some sort of Quixotic quest. That's really what this thread is about: setting the record straight about what happened and when it occurred.