An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The right answer is to work to reduce them.

How do you know that PADI isn't continuing to work on how to reduce such tragedies? My understanding is that they've already made some changes in their program, based upon statements I've read in this thread. I'm specifically referring to Hawkwood's post/response to The Laconic on page 12 of this thread:

When I first started diving, I tried to read a lot of incident reports. For me, the single most important lesson I learned was to at least bear in mind the possibility of dropping weights when you're in trouble, and to always drop weights when you're in trouble at the surface (no exceptions come to mind, anyway). But this was never emphasized in my open water course. And later, while I was a DMC, I was (mildly) reprimanded by the instructor for even bringing it up during an OW classroom session.

Well, it's now a requirement in PADI's revised OW program.

I have a tough time thinking that PADI (or any other training agency) will not make ongoing changes to increase the safety of all their programs. I don't mean to be facetious when I say this, but all training agencies have a financial interest in their students surviving. Even if one considers any training agency to be evil and have no moral compass, there is always the financial interests, including, but not limited to: avoiding lawsuits, staying alive to take more classes, staying alive and getting friends/family to dive.

Now I'm not a professional diver. Yet. I'll start that journey in the new year with the dive shop with the most thorough diving instructor I've had (and I've had about a dozen so far).

 

[The Chairman]

It is not a matter of eliminating human error or making it "perfect". It is a matter of making it better, reducing risk. Are you really saying it is as good as it can get and these things just have to be accepted?

That is precisely what is happening. Scuba Training is evolving and getting better. PADI is as much of that process as any other agency.

It's a balancing act on making processes idiot proof. The biggest problem being that idiots can be so damned resourceful in hiding their idiocy. Accidents, and training accidents in particular are rare. They happen even less frequently than DCS and so are truly an aberration. On top of that, it doesn't appear that standards are the problem, but rather the breaking of those standards that are at the root cause of these accidents. In that regard, we have a law of diminishing returns. While saving lives is a noble goal, increasing the presence of any agency will have little effect on these aberrations and so will probably not result in saving any lives. What it would do is to make an already hard to enter sport even harder to enter.

Is PADI doing enough? I believe they are, as are all the agencies. In fact, I think they are doing more than most of the agencies.

Most of my classes are one or two on one. Every now and then I get four and really, I would turn away more than that except under special conditions. I hate to say "most", but there are a lot of instructors just like me.

 

[ElGaucho]

Pete, I do believe now you are being naive. The "most" you refer to are either independent instructors or instructors working in non-scuba diving locales (landlocked for example). Most of the destinations in the world that do scuba diving are doing 1:2 to 1:4 DSDs, 1:4 (and more) OW classes for sure, mixed classes (doing skills for different level students on the same dive) and many other things you, myself, and others on this board consider stretching the limits or even unacceptable. I am right now in Cozumel, and let me tell you the things I've seen these past few days scare the crap out of me, and still I know there are few accidents, because in the end **** only hits the fan when it does. Standards violations are all over the place, for DSDs, OW courses, or any course for that matter. To these standards violations imply there is going to be a horrible incident? Not necessarily, but complacency stretches the limits and the risk acceptance we approve ... until something bad happens. Again, everybody's a gdam genius in hindsight. But Im sure many of the "violations" in Lake Bear had been going on for years, without any incident, they slowly became the norm. I can tell you after spending a few days in Tikila beach in Cozumel, I have a new understanding of the different approaches to real life, scuba destination level of instruction from the inside. With shops and instructors that cover the whole galore of levels, agencies, and standards acceptance.

Who's using the flip chart and probably the video and the whole shebang of stuff? 5 star IDC shops, because that's their business. But the small resort shop, or the subcontracted instructor, they won't care about flipbook, they don't even have it. So you see, standards are very relative. Again, I do believe there is an interesting discussion to be had regarding ratios, regarding the way we train instructors, scuba divers and ultimately if there is a need for a better system of maintaining instructor rating. And I strongly believe, again that this incident and the subsequent Brian letter, as well as the follow up PADI letters open doors for intelligent discussion. PADI does have a "lets go diving and lets forget about all this, because Brian is a gdam idiot and he is talking out of his ass". I would rather have the deeper discussions, since I believe that is the "position" a board like this does have in the industry. PADI is not going to willingly put itself in a re-evaluation position. SDI will (as it did) take a stab at PADI because they are right now the underdog. Let's take advantage of that as an industry, and yeah, cut the PADI bashing, but also cut the PADI defensive trolling as well. We should be reviewing best practices, and a board like this is the perfect stage to have these discussions.

 

[Zippsy]

Gaucho, do you think Brian's letter was a call for standards to be reviewed? Why didn't he mention that anywhere in his letter? He didn't even allude to it in passing. The only time he mentioned standards at all was when he stated unequivocally that the instructor did not violate a single standard.

Do you think that this accident would have happened if all standards had been observed? That answer is certainly debatable but I think it would have at least been much less likely.

That said, a review of standards, discussion about standards, discussion about the observance of standards and the discussion about the ease or lack of ease of observing standards is almost always a useful discussion to have. Let's do that on another thread though because it has absolutely nothing to do with this case at all.

Finally, as many others have pointed out, PADI currently has two ways to identify instructors who do not follow standards. First, they ask students how they were taught through questionaires. When procedures deviate from standards, they investigate further and take action as needed. Second, they also rely on professionals reporting on violations that they witness. I am beginning to wonder if PADI is naive in thinking that instructors are capable of doing that although this would indicate a failure on the part of both the agency and the instructors.

Does anyone know how SDI identifies and deals with bad instructors? Surely their system must be better, no? I know Brian says that he won't throw them under a bus but I am looking for more specific answers.

 

[tursiops]

I'm a little surprised people are using the phrase about PADI throwing an instructor under a bus.
That instructor threw himself under the bus. PADI agreed he was in the right place.

 

[redacted]

...And how much did all of that cost the taxpayers?

Quite a bit. IMHO, too much. And you are still paying me. But, you, I and most other Americans got to vote on that.

You keep saying saying they should do something better, but you do not have a clue yourself how that would happen. You might as well say GM should start making cars that cannot possibly be involved in accidents. Never mind that it is not currently possible--from the comfort of your armchair you can rag on them for not doing it.

Post # 38 was my attempt to provide suggested approaches to reduce risk. They were pretty much rejected or ignored by many instructors participating in this thread. I get the impression from many of them that they don't think any agency need take any action in regards to this incident other than expelling instructors when they get caught. That really shocked me.

I have offered a number of solutions to PADI for problems that I have seen, and I am proud to say some have been accepted. If I had one, I would offer it.

As a professional, you really got nothing on this one. Yet you expect a solution from an outsider!!! Try this: ENFORCE STANDARDS BEFORE THE ACCIDENT HAPPENS.

Being an outsider, I'm not sure what any agency is doing. They don't seem to talk much to the public about things like this. In fact, they seem to pay some pretty big bucks just to keep it quiet. So, if they were doing anything, neither their agencies nor their instructors seem to want to say much about it. although, lookinjg at more recent posts, it loo0ks like a bit more discussion and information may be starting to flow.

I have seen instructors do some very questionable (and dangerous) things. Of course, I can't know if they involved any standards violations. Unless agencies believe they have a good handle on identifying possible violations, they could go so far as to consider a program along these lines: Hotlines | Prevention | DUI Foundation

It has got to be better to deal with the problem before the accident happens.

 

[boulderjohn]

Standards violations are all over the place, for DSDs, OW courses, or any course for that matter. ...

Who's using the flip chart and probably the video and the whole shebang of stuff? 5 star IDC shops, because that's their business. But the small resort shop, or the subcontracted instructor, they won't care about flipbook, they don't even have it.

Finally, as many others have pointed out, PADI currently has two ways to identify instructors who do not follow standards. First, they ask students how they were taught through questionaires. When procedures deviate from standards, they investigate further and take action as needed. Second, they also rely on professionals reporting on violations that they witness. I am beginning to wonder if PADI is naive in thinking that instructors are capable of doing that although this would indicate a failure on the part of both the agency and the instructors.

As Zippsy points out, it is a PADI member standard that professionals need to report standards violations they witness. In this thread, ElGaucho reports that he sees "standards violations all over the place." Has he reported them? If not, then he is violating standards every day, and he openly admits it.

So, ElGaucho, if you do not do your duty and report these violations, how can you blame PADI for not acting on them?

 

[redacted]

As Zippsy points out, it is a PADI member standard that professionals need to report standards violations they witness. In this thread, ElGaucho reports that he sees "standards violations all over the place." Has he reported them? If not, then he is violating standards every day, and he openly admits it.

So, ElGaucho, if you do not do your duty and report these violations, how can you blame PADI for not acting on them?

Have YOU reported HIM yet?

Or do you both think you would just be pissing into the wind?

 

[boulderjohn]

Have YOU reported HIM yet?

Or do you both think you would just be pissing into the wind?

Sorry, I can't report him. I have not actually witnessed it, which is a requirement. Notice the number of times I used the word "if" in my post. I infer from what he wrote that he has witnessed violations and not reported them. I don't have any real evidence that it actually happened. It could be that he is making all of it up to support his opinion. He could also have been reporting them all along and not mentioned it in his post.

I also don't know his real name.

Now, I would suggest that he give some consideration to the things he posts on ScubaBoard. PADI officials do not post here, but they do read through relevant threads. I know a ScubaBoard member who is currently dealing with the aftermath of something he wrote about witnessing standards violations only a few weeks ago.

 

[HIGHwing]

This is quite the indictment. Was it just a paper crossover or did they do another IE/ITC? I can't speak to SSI, but SDI at least requires that you're an instructor in good standing with another agency.

I know of three cases of this happening. The process is remarkably simple. You pay SDI $500 before your suspension/expulsion letter from PADI, and complete the online crossover training course. Then you make a copy of your PADI Professional Member ratings and email that to SDI. In a day or two you'll schedule a Skype session with SDI training where the read you a bunch off PPT charts. You could literally be crossed over to SDI/TDI in a single day's effort - no problem.

Gaucho, do you think Brian's letter was a call for standards to be reviewed?

I think we can stand on pretty firm ground knowing this isn't the case. Evidence? His insurer wrote us all a letter earlier in the year advising us the ratio standards for DSD has been revised by the underwriting insurer.

As Zippsy points out, it is a PADI member standard that professionals need to report standards violations they witness.

My one critique of the QM process is that instructor v. instructor complaints are not taken very seriously. PADI isn't too keen on shop v. shop and/or instructor v. instructor complaints as PADI claimed they are often biased and financially motivated.