An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

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wow. clearly you don't actually know Brian.
Brian wrote this letter leading up to DEMA because the industry HAS to address this. Yes, Brian leads a competitor to PADI but who else could write a piece that would be taken seriously?

Don't kid yourself. Brian wrote that self-serving piece to be the anti-PADI hero at DEMA in attempt to gain market share. Read the letter again, Brian essentially says leave PADI and come to TDI/SDI because we'll support you no matter what happens. We can comfortably assume Brian did not have all the facts in the case and was under or perhaps misinformed at the time he mounted the soap box, but... Nothing will deny the fact that he knew [at the time of publishing] his insurance underwriter has a severability clause for accidents resultant of a standards violation. His liability insurer would NOT have covered this instructor and he knew it.

The only way Brian can make the claim is if TDI/SDI intends to write the check for future judgments incurred by an instructor in cases when the insurance is insufficient, or the insurance severs per the clause(s) in professional liability indemnity contract. Count me as VERY dubious that TDI/SDI has the balance sheet to self-insure.
 
snip....His liability insurer would NOT have covered this instructor and he knew it.

His liability insurer *is* covering this instructor.
 
But it's at their option, not Brian's.

They are contractually obligated to do so. Willis insured the instructor and the shop. Willis also happens to insure TDI. Willis' relationship with TDI/SDI is not the same incestuous relationship that V&B has with PADI. I had Willis (and Marsh, before Willis) long before TDI was an agency.
 
So, you want a Scuba Police force. Sounds like fun. Every agency will have to hire at least ten times their current employee number to be able to enforce this. Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to pay for their travel? Their kibbles? Their gear? Their air? Their hospital bills when the shops shoot the poor bastards? How effective can or will it be?

As you say, the current system is not perfect, but it seems to be more than adequate. You can't completely eliminate death from any activity. You would have to eliminate death for that to happen and you're not up to that challenge. We're not up to that challenge. We'd end up looking like the OSHA Cowboy I posted earlier.

Now, I would love to hear some reasonable ideas to improve safety, but first we have to deal with the misinformation presented by Carney's letter. We have to establish honor, reason and truth to this process before you, or some other well meaning but myopic person has us chasing our tails in some sort of Quixotic quest. That's really what this thread is about: setting the record straight about what happened and when it occurred.

This is the typical response of scuba professionals who are simply not interested in seeking improved enforcement. You have to wonder why. Are you afraid of more oversight?

Does Key Largo have a police force? Is it a bad thing? Do you think you would be better off without it?

Do you believe standards enforcement is at the right level now and improving that capability is unwarranted?

As a result of this thread, it seems that some agencies are already in the process of improving their enforcement capabilities. Do you disapprove? I believe, in the ended, there will also be some changes in the standards for the conduct of DSD.

I have said it before, it is not a matter of eliminating risk. It is a matter of taking a critical look at this incident and saying "what can we do better to reduces the likelihood of similar incidents occurring?" If you come up with nothing, so be it. You are not going to be a active part of improvement. I believe others will identify and implement improvements (risk reduction measures).
 
As a result of this thread, it seems that some agencies are already in the process of improving their enforcement capabilities.

LOL! Dude, get over yourself.
 
As a result of this thread, it seems that some agencies are already in the process of improving their enforcement capabilities. Do you disapprove? I believe, in the ended, there will also be some changes in the standards for the conduct of DSD.

Believe what you read, but PADI has continually blocked any tightening of the standards at the most recent RSTC meetings. You see, it's a case of requiring a unanimous vote to change a standard, not a majority, so if 4 other members decide they want a 2:1 ratio for DSD, and 1:1 if the DSD participant is a minor, and one member votes no, then the standards don't get changed. Some folks participating in this thread have said repeatedly that PADI is all for changing the standards. They get their information from PADI. I get mine from the other 4 members of the RSTC. PADI doesn't want any standards tightened, and they have veto power, so the standards aren't getting changed.

This thread is more full of BS than a Kansas feedlot.
 
What in God's name are you talking about, awap? We get it. You want a petrol car to go around looking for scuba classes and then spying on them to see if they are breaking standards, then jumping in and rescuing the students before they are injured. Great idea. Now move on. Several people have actually done a little thinking before they posted suggestions and while I haven't seen the perfect suggestion yet, I'm impressed with their effort. You silliness is hiding their posts.

Somewhere in here, I think it was cerich who suggested including standards in the manuals. There are good and bad sides of that suggestion, and I'm not convinced it's a good idea overall but that's just my opinion. I like the part offering discounts on future courses if they fill out some QA form after the course though. That portion may increase the reply rate on the current student questionaire. Two thumbs up for cerich and the few others making real suggestions, even if I don't agree with them.

awap, on the other hand... :shakehead:

---------- Post added December 23rd, 2014 at 11:40 PM ----------

This thread is more full of BS than a Kansas feedlot.

Just trying to stay on script with the original letter from Brian. :p
 
Silly me. I thought everyone considered accidental death to be unacceptable. You don't???

No doubt, the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility belongs to the instructor. But I don't believe for a minute that this instructor has not been conducting DSD with the BSA at that location for some time. While the standards leave a bit to be desired, enforcement seems to have been lacking.

You either don't understand your scuba training or you have completely ignored it. There is NO WAY to make scuba diving truly safe.

You can drown in 2 feet of water, have a heart attack in 5 feet. Suffer an AGE or DCS hit under recreationally safe conditions... There are a million accidents that can be fatal even following best practices 1000%. That's why you sign a liability release every time you dive somewhere that expressly says SCUBA DIVING IS A HAZARDOUS activity.

But I guess you can't read ether.
 
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You either don't understand your scuba training or you have completely ignored it. There is NO WAY to make scuba diving truly safe.

You can drown in 2 feet of water, have a heart attack in 5 feet. Suffer an AGE or DCS hit under recreationally safe conditions... There are a million accidents that can be fatal even following best practices 1000%. That's why you sign a liability release every time you dive somewhere that expressly says SCUBA DIVING IS A HAZARDOUS activity.

But I guess you can't read ether.

I'm sure you don't mean to appear to be saying that scuba is unsafe.

Perhaps you mean "There is no way to make scuba diving risk free." Then you could go on and talk about the many, many things that have been done to reduce these risks. And then you could even go on to explain how risks must be constantly assessed and risk reduction measures instituted when appropriate.

---------- Post added December 23rd, 2014 at 12:20 PM ----------

What in God's name are you talking about, awap? We get it. You want a petrol car to go around looking for scuba classes and then spying on them to see if they are breaking standards, then jumping in and rescuing the students before they are injured.

Your words, not mine. What I have said is ENFORCEMENT needs to be part of the system to prevent accidents.
 

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