An observation about divers

[danvolker]

God forbid that scuba shouldn't be an exclusive club.



Really? Where? I heartily recommend practicing skills and even posted that it is ideal for people to do so.



Sorry, wrong again. I haven't ridiculed anyone in this thread.



The very phrasing of your point shows the issue. I believe that diving is a recreational activity where people can have fun and be safe with a few well practiced skills. It's not a competition. It's not about excellence versus mediocrity, it's about participation, fun, discovery and joy.

You want to work on skills and develop pinpoint buoyancy control because you find that fun or you want to engage in a type of diving where that's necessary? Great, go for it! Come dive with me and I'll help you do it (without charging you anything, since I love mentoring divers and I dive all the time anyway). But the second you decide that because you can hover within some arbitrary number of inches of a set depth that you have a right to look down your nose at some one who doesn't care to refine their skills to that level, then you're entirely out of line.

I think you will find that the perception of most divers in this forum, was that you were ridiculing the diver interested in taking Fundies....whether this was an honest mistake or not, this is how you came off.

I can't speak for all DIR divers...there are many different reasons people choose to dive, or to gravitate to DIR ideas.
For me, I was a spearfisherman in the 80's and 90's, constantly looking for bigger fish...this constantly getting me into deeper reefs and deeper wrecks, and in to much bigger currents. It sometimes got me into minimal penetration situations, and it was a form of pure adventure, with each weekend's experiences to be outrageously fun. I found that the coolest marine life interactions would occur in the most challenging, high current areas with huge structures. and just so you know, I could go 10 dives without ever pulling the trigger--I would have very specific targets, I WOULD ONLY SHOOT WHAT i WOULD EAT, and the hunt was more fun than the shooting.....but the hogsnapper for dinner was really nice too

In the 80's and early nineties I mostly dived with hard core spearfisherman off the charter boat of Frank Hammett ( a living legend in early scuba diving and spearfishing since 1954). This promoted ever increasing fitness to handle the high speed pace of the hard core spearfisherman in high current areas, and allow SAc rates to remain minimal.
I ran into George Irvine on a deep spearfishing dive on the wreck of the HydroAtlantic ( 185 feet deep), he with several buddies in doubles, me in an 80 single. He and his guys followed around me on much of the dive, interested in what activity I might create after shooting something on the massive ecosystem that was the Hydro back then ( they were expecting a fairly cool shark diving encounter I think
When the dive ended, they introduced themselves to me, and offered to bring me on a real deep dive off of North Miami that was around 270 feet deep, with even bigger fish on it. George would lend me the doubles and regs, and it was an offer I could not pass up.
What happened in the next year of diving with these guys, was that I saw they could do things no spearfisherman I had ever dived with, could do.

I remember following George down a passageway in a deep shipwreck, headed well into the inner compartments of the ship...following some huge grouper we had seen run into this area...George was 20 feet down ahead of me in this relatively narrow passage, and running a line...the amazing thing was that in a challenging restricted passage like this, he was absolutely motionless as he worked the line and hung in a way no spearfisherman I had ever seen, could have ever managed. The passage was silty, and I was using all of my talents to avoid bumping and silting--to George, this was a non-issue. There was zero chance of him silting, and zero effort to avoid it.
This was probably the first "skill" I saw that was not part of the "mainstream". But I could immediately see the value. I could also see how much better streamlined his gear was than my stab jacket. There were so many issues I could see that appeared to be a smarter way.....So I wanted to learn this stuff, and fortunately, George Irvine and Bill Mee were very happy to "mentor" me into this form of more advanced diving skills--later to become known as DIR.

What I am saying is that for someone that sees diving as an adventure...in the same way that a Snow Skiier or Mountain Biker can dream about their next adventure in the mountains, a diver can easily have dreams about bigger adventures...bigger adventures entail preparation, and getting yourself ready for the bigger challenges. This was the DIR path.
There are plenty of divers who love to dive gentle 50 foot reefs, with near xzero currents, few large fish, and where "adventure" is not the experience, but maybe relaxation or the marveling at extreme beauty may be. They are JUST AS RIGHT as we are. I do not give these divers any grief what so ever.
Divers that are so underskilled that they kangaroo along the bottom, dragging a console in the coral or sand, this is another story...this is the frequent result of an industry mandate to teach the bare minimum for a diver to survive---to allow the largest market share possible to purchase certification cards, and to then buy dive gear.

As for the mentoring, if you want to visit us in Palm Beach, I will make sure you get some free mentoring by Errol or Bob Sherwood ( GUE ).
I would dive with you, but I don't teach, don't want to teach--- I like the adventure of diving.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I think you will find that the perception of most divers in this forum, was that you were ridiculing the diver interested in taking Fundies....whether this was an honest mistake or not, this is how you came off.

And I've stated I'm sorry for what was obvious a poor joke. The only comment I made to the OP was that if he decided to do PADI training in a BP/W he might run into some problems with the PADI CD's understanding of PADI standards.

What I am saying is that for someone that sees diving as an adventure...in the same way that a Snow Skiier or Mountain Biker can dream about their next adventure in the mountains, a diver can easily have dreams about bigger adventures...bigger adventures entail preparation, and getting yourself ready for the bigger challenges. This was the DIR path.

And if someone is on that path they absolutely should seek the proper training or mentoring to get them where they want to go. I haven't ever said otherwise.

Thanks for your story too, that's really a fascinating tale!

Divers that are so underskilled that they kangaroo along the bottom, dragging a console in the coral or sand, this is another story...this is the frequent result of an industry mandate to teach the bare minimum for a diver to survive---to allow the largest market share possible to purchase certification cards, and to then buy dive gear.

In many cases that is true. I think the other possibility is that they are highly infrequent divers who simply have never practiced their skills at all and after some time out of the water have effectively forgotten how to dive. In either case I do agree that those folks aren't showing the minimal skills needed to be safe (let alone comfortable) divers and can use some help.

 

[danvolker]

And I've stated I'm sorry for what was obvious a poor joke. The only comment I made to the OP was that if he decided to do PADI training in a BP/W he might run into some problems with the PADI CD's understanding of PADI standards.




And if someone is on that path they absolutely should seek the proper training or mentoring to get them where they want to go. I haven't ever said otherwise.

Thanks for your story too, that's really a fascinating tale!



In many cases that is true. I think the other possibility is that they are highly infrequent divers who simply have never practiced their skills at all and after some time out of the water have effectively forgotten how to dive. In either case I do agree that those folks aren't showing the minimal skills needed to be safe (let alone comfortable) divers and can use some help.

Hallelujah, we found a common agreement and understanding.
Now we can talk about something important like who has the bigger dog

In any event, I now use my DIR skills for shooting video, and the occaisional stills....and I am very happy with how enjoyable the results are
Sandra never liked me shooting fish she was trying to take a picture of

 

[Peter Guy]

kingp wrote

I think the other possibility is that they are highly infrequent divers who simply have never practiced their skills at all and after some time out of the water have effectively forgotten how to dive.

I agree and disagree.

Agree -- I'm sure that many are very infrequent flyers who haven't practiced their skills.

Disagree -- I'm afraid that many of them never were taught they COULD DO such things as maintain some semblance of buoyancy control -- which is what Dan has been discussing. These poorly trained divers don't know there is "a better way" of diving.

Example -- I had an OW student a while ago -- 3 or 4 ninety minute pool sessions and 4 twenty-five minute OW dives. By his 4th dive, he and his buddy were nicely stable, floating a few inches (10-12?) off the silty bottom of Cove 2 and not destroying the viz.

He came back for AOW about 15 months later and on his checkout/refresher dive, he was bouncing off the bottom and having a hard time maintaining any semblance of control. Just looking at him, you couldn't have identified any difference in his skill level from the most poorly trained 90 minute wonder.

The difference was he knew it -- because he had been taught what he could do, he knew his performance sucked AND that he could do better. I think that is very important.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Agreed, Peter ... I can't tell you how many AOW students I've had show up with 25+ post OW dives who it had never occurred to that they should not be kneeling every time they had to look at their gauges or take a compass heading.

They were simply doing what they'd been taught to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Let me try to answer this in another way, using something that we both have in common, basic open water scuba course.

Randy don't get me wrong take the class. There are many things of value that can be learned so I did not intend to discourage you in any way. I was just wondering what your perceptions were going in and they appear to be pretty open. That's fine. Good luck.

 

[Teamcasa]

... I can't tell you how many AOW students I've had show up with 25+ post OW dives who it had never occurred to that they should not be kneeling every time they had to look at their gauges or take a compass heading.

They were simply doing what they'd been taught to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's like an AOW class I observed in Catalina. All of the students (6) were lined up, kneeling on the bottom patiently waiting their turn to swim through some weighted hula-hoops as part of their Peak Buoyancy class.

 

[randytay]

That's like an AOW class I observed in Catalina. All of the students (6) were lined up, kneeling on the bottom patiently waiting their turn to swim through some weighted hula-hoops as part of their Peak Buoyancy class.