An Idea Taken From DIR

[SDAnderson]

I thought Nemrod's post was spot on, though special conditions may warrant a slight modification of the protocol he recommends. For those of you who charge the system and then shut the valve down, a few questions:

• How often do you find the system purged (needing to be recharged) during a dive?
• Why would you care if the system is charged or not?
• What effect might really cold water (say, sub-40F) have on an uncharged system?

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

nvmd.

 

[divad]

I charge it to make sure the 1st stage O-ring is properly seated, to check the pressure, and to make sure the second stage (de-tuned) is working right. I don't know if it can fully discharge, its never happened and I'm not sure if I care wether it's charged or not.

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

Lets discuss, if the valve were off AND the hose is wrapped up on the bottle .

In a real OOA situation, you might be gasping for air, lets say your prim. reg was pulled from your mouth as you are inhaling. Honestly, if this situation arises, I don't want to have to reach over for my alt. reg while simultaneously turning the valve on, pull the reg out of how it's attached to the tank and breath. I would rather grab beneath my mouth, place reg, and breathe. I know that practicing can make it more routine, but it seems like a bit much in a really bad situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong but here is my point, My priority seems to be making the solution simple if a problem arises. The valve off with hose wrapped around the tank seems to be better for preventing problems in the first place. I think I prefer the former, but that's just me.

 

[divad]

In a real OOA situation, you might be gasping for air, lets say your prim. reg was pulled from your mouth as you are inhaling..

I'd go to the bungied back-up.

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

For solo diving: A few folks have said that an octo or AIR2 is another source of error on your back tank, thus they believe in removing it altogether.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

....................................
In a real OOA situation, you might be gasping for air, lets say your prim. reg was pulled from your mouth as you are inhaling. Honestly, if this situation arises, I don't want to have to reach over for my alt. reg while simultaneously turning the valve on, pull the reg out of how it's attached to the tank and breath. I would rather grab beneath my mouth, place reg, and breathe. I know that practicing can make it more routine, but it seems like a bit much in a really bad situation..........

I have had my reg ripped out (OK kicked out,by an out of control diver with serious bouyancy problems) and you'd be suprised how long you have before you absolutely are dying for a breath of air. I was at about 80 feet and my mouthpiece actually separated from the 2nd stage. Before I knew what was happening, I had a mouth full of warm wet salty "air" that did not seem optimal for breathing.

I was also diving a BCD equiped with an Air2; not my regular setup. So when I realized what happened with my primary 2nd stage I initially debated reattaching the mouthpiece vs. deploying the octo. Not sure if there were going to be other problems with the primary second stage, I switched to the Air2 and promptly hit the wrong button to purge it. Realizing the error, I found the correct button and started breathing again. The whole event probably lasted about 10 seconds from the reg being kicked out to me breathing again. The whole time I never once felt panicked or horribly out of breath. I was just annoyed at the yo-yo diver who came crashing down on my head.

This was somewhere between my 150th and 200th dive. Had it happened on my 20th dive, it might have been another story.

The point being that anyone who is ready for solo diving should absolutely be able to calmly handle most OOA situations with out any problems. If the time it takes to deploy the 2nd stage and turn on the valve is problematic, one should pause to think whether or not they are ready to solo dive.

 

[Nemrod]

Quote Reefraff:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How often do you find the system purged (needing to be recharged) during a dive?
Why would you care if the system is charged or not?
What effect might really cold water (say, sub-40F) have on an uncharged system?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Concerning question number one, it depends upon the regulator, my Oceanic with Mark V clone first will stay charged throught the dive unless you bump the purge.

Question number two, I charge the system to determne if it is functionaland that there are no leaks and it keeps water from getting anywhere it should not and it has been my experiance that most regulator failures occur when they first see pressure so by turning it on and leaving it charged your somewhat eliminating a possible failure condition.

Question number three--beats me.

The more I think about it the less I like the idea of necklacing a pony bottle second stage. It just does not strike me as a good idea. If I were to and I am not, I would get a hose length that would allow it to come under my left arm, around my neck and into my mouth. All in all I don't like it. This is not because I am against DIR because I am not and it is not because I don't like necklaced seconds because I have used them, I just don't like mixing and matching. In the DIR system the way they route the long hose is logical and well thought out and it has a clear routing path and in no way is tangle prone, I jus't don't see a clean routing path that would not either dangle or involve multiple wraps, I don't like it--sorry.

It has been discussed keeping an octpsus vs removing it for solo. I just see no point in an octapus if your actually solo diving. I sometimes don't bother to remove it but it is a failure point. The octapus introduces multiple additional failure modes as does the AIRII type rigs. I think that for ultimate relaibility your regulators should be carefully chosen and as many failure modes removed as possible. There is a reason I use a double hose for solo, it is considerably more reliable because it is sealed, has fewer parts, fewer seals and fewer failure modes but that is just my thoughts on it. Nonetheless, adding an additional second stage to any regulator increases by a factor of two the possible failures.

N

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

I have had my reg ripped out (OK kicked out,by an out of control diver with serious bouyancy problems) and you'd be suprised how long you have before you absolutely are dying for a breath of air. I was at about 80 feet and my mouthpiece actually separated from the 2nd stage. Before I knew what was happening, I had a mouth full of warm wet salty "air" that did not seem optimal for breathing.

I was also diving a BCD equiped with an Air2; not my regular setup. So when I realized what happened with my primary 2nd stage I initially debated reattaching the mouthpiece vs. deploying the octo. Not sure if there were going to be other problems with the primary second stage, I switched to the Air2 and promptly hit the wrong button to purge it. Realizing the error, I found the correct button and started breathing again. The whole event probably lasted about 10 seconds from the reg being kicked out to me breathing again. The whole time I never once felt panicked or horribly out of breath. I was just annoyed at the yo-yo diver who came crashing down on my head.

This was somewhere between my 150th and 200th dive. Had it happened on my 20th dive, it might have been another story.

The point being that anyone who is ready for solo diving should absolutely be able to calmly handle most OOA situations with out any problems. If the time it takes to deploy the 2nd stage and turn on the valve is problematic, one should pause to think whether or not they are ready to solo dive.

Great post, it's hard to beat experience. I'm not currently "solo diving", however, I am preparing to become a solo diver, by getting my gear together and practicing in the pool . No one has it perfect the first time, I have a lot to learn.

My thought is, ultimately, time can be the difference between life and death. In other words, given a specific OOA, you may have at the most, X seconds before your body must satisfy the urge to breathe, whether it's water or the air in your tank, your body will attempt to breathe. I don't want to purposely eliminate any of those X seconds if my life might depend on it.

What if your buddy had knocked your reg out on an inhale, ut oh, you just inhaled water and are choking violently...would you rather reach to your necklace or deploy the system (turn on valve, remove reg)?

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

Let me pose this question, for those solo divers who have there redundant air rig in the same fashion that DIR divers sling stage bottles, how is the hose and reg attached to the bottle. Do you use some type of inner tube or rubber tubing that seems to be standard? If so, how forcefully must you pull on the hose to remove it from the bottle? I would think there would be a better disconnect system, then to have to pull it from the grasp of two inner tubes?