An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[joker31]

ae3753..... Thanks, that makes sence. I knew you didn't dive doubles all the time. Just wondered why the other gear components.....

 

[Kingpatzer]

You can tuck the hose (easiest). Or you can put a sheath with shears/knife on the right side and route under that (my preference). Some put a pocket on the harness there. Really, not rocket science.

I was assuming that tucking stuff under straps to hold in place would be frowned upon.

 

[joker31]

I tend to skip some posts if I was gone and 6 pages have been put up since. Usually page 10 is completely different in material, nature, shoot even topic then page 16, 20, etc. Plus its hard to read some of the novels too.... Sorry if I asked a repeat question or missed a previous answer...

 

[BabyDuck]

I was assuming that tucking stuff under straps to hold in place would be frowned upon.

not tucked under like one end looped totally through, but made into a 'u' loop and the loop tucked into the waist strap. a slight upwards tug & it's all out & deployed.

 

[Sloth]

Sloth - as a nonDIR diver that is exactly what DIR sounds like to me (the shoe analogy). Same Boyance Compensator, same reg setup for all your diving..... One pair of shoes to run in, work in, dance in..... I dive different gear when I am: training OW students, rec diving on my own time, tech diving. I am not bashing what you do, hell I don't know the training/concept behind it, thats what it looks like from the outside looking in. And thats why I ask!

My questions and those of many others are not always hateful. There is genuine curiosity as to what you guys are doing. I know that there are some mudslingers out there, I've read their posts. But no all of us are...

Just realized that you havent been on these forums long so you probably havent seen the other hundred threads just like this so apologize for the smart a$$ answer.

A shoe isn't exactly a complicated system requiring muscle memory when stress levels rise to the point where critical thinking slows down and fine motor control disappears.

As is common knowledge high levels of stress causes loss of fine motor control and critical thinking. Depending on the person, this means that when bad things happen and you start sliding down the incident pit you have to have ingrained skills to get you out of that pit. In tech diving parlance your buoyancy has to be intuitive, you have to be able to isolate valves and air share all on muscle memory and your awareness has to naturally encompass the team.

To help divers develop the intuitiveness to survive an emergency in a technical environment GUE/UTD puts a heavy emphasis on practicing basic skills, extending your bubble of awareness and gear compliance on all dives not just technical or training dives.

A better analogy would be me saying that diving one setup for rec diving and a different setup for tech diving is like a solider training with a M14 but going into combat with a m16a2.

Mark

 

[Thalassamania]

As is common knowledge high levels of stress causes loss of fine motor control and critical thinking. Depending on the person, this means that when bad things happen and you start sliding down the incident pit you have to have ingrained skills to get you out of that pit. In tech diving parlance your buoyancy has to be intuitive, you have to be able to isolate valves and air share all on muscle memory and your awareness has to naturally encompass the team.

or as an alternative be well enough trained and prepared that just about nothing can stress you and start the slippery slide into the pit. Sounds to me like your advocating an equipment solution to a skill and disposition problem.

To help divers develop the intuitiveness to survive an emergency in a technical environment GUE/UTD puts a heavy emphasis on practicing basic skills, extending your bubble of awareness and gear compliance on all dives not just technical or training dives.

I could not agree more.

A better analogy would be me saying that diving one setup for rec diving and a different setup for tech diving is like a solider training with a M14 but going into combat with a m16a2.

Mark

You're missing the point, you can go into combat with an m16a2, an m60, an m107, or for that matter driving a Paladin, an Abrams or a Bradley ... each has it's time and place, it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

[b1gcountry]

I dive different gear when I am: training OW students, rec diving on my own time, tech diving. I am not bashing what you do, hell I don't know the training/concept behind it, thats what it looks like from the outside looking in. And thats why I ask!

I've got a different BC for each of those occasions as well. If I'm in a single tank in warm water, I have a lightweight BC with minimal lift sized for the thin padding. If I'm diving a single tank in cold water with a drysuit, I use a BC with integrated weight, a little more lift, and sized larger to fit the heavy undergarments. With Doubles, I have one BC for my AL80s, and another for my steel tanks. Both of them have up to 18 pounds of integrated weight if needed.

If I'm doing a dive that requires a light, I have two storage spots for backup lights, and have the option of bringing a nice bright canister light with me that can be fitted to any of my BCs.

The difference between my setups and yours is probably that all my 'BCs' have D-rings in the exact same places, so no matter which one I'm using, I can reach in the same place, and find what I expect to be there to actually be there. The releases are all in the same place, and when I need to do something really important, like donate a regulator, I perform the same maneuver in any one of them.

If you have a bunch of different gear configurations that you use in different diving scenarios, there has to be one that you tend to prefer how the D-Rings are positioned more than another, or you prefer how your hoses route with that setup, etc. What the BP/W gives me is that it allows me to pick the positioning and fit I like and apply it to any tank configuration and weighting needs I might want to dive with.

To touch on the shoe analogy a little, our shoes are not standard one size fits all situations. We have different kinds of shoes for different occasions, but all our shoes have laces on them, so put on the shoe and tie it the same way no matter what shoe we're wearing.

Tom

 

[Sloth]

or as an alternative be well enough trained and prepared that just about nothing can stress you and start the slippery slide into the pit.

Sounds to me like your advocating an equipment solution to a skill and disposition problem.

Respectfully disagree. Anyone can be stressed to the point of panic. At that point the only thing they have to rely on is an ingrained response to a set situation to get to a point where things become manageable again. It's totally not a equipment solution, its a conditioning solution.

You're missing the point, you can go into combat with an m16a2, an m60, an m107, or for that matter driving a Paladin, an Abrams or a Bradley ... each has it's time and place, it's advantages and disadvantages.

I think you missed the point here. A solider is trained to familiarity to at most 5 or 6 weapon systems and then he is conditioned to one weapon system. You dont hand a SAW to a Pvt. that has been humping a M203 before a mission unless you have to. In Somalia I was stuck as the assistant gunner on a mission even though I usually carried a M16a2. I was so poorly conditioned both physically and technically for that role I was functionally combat ineffective. In a nutshell train how you fight.

You want to do tech dives then dive rec in functionally the same gear until it's intuitive. I doubt this applies to you but for those going down the tech road I think it is critical and I think it is one of the things that separates GUE/UTD from most other agencies.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's just the kind of humorless response to a lighthearted post with a twinge or irony that gives DIR a bad name. It's almost a perfect example of the problem.

BTW: Those special rules are for the "DIR Practitioners Zone," a different subforum than this one, where honest opinions that don't start with a kool-aid toast are prohibited.

Not so ... they're for THIS forum as well. See the sticky at the top of the forum.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/462717-post1.html

Welcome to our new DIR forum...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few guidelines...
1) No trolling! This is not the place for agency bashing! This is especially not a place for bashing DIR divers. Refer to Notice: the DIR forum is a No Trolling Zone for any questions about what constitutes a troll.
2) This forum is for a free exchange of ideas concerning DIR, but it is NOT intended to limit any mention of DIR to only this forum. There are many things pertaining to DIR that will be discussed in other forums as well.
3) All the rules of the board still apply here. You don't get to harrass or call people names. Civility should rule.
4) Most of all, have fun and learn something at the same time. Read our Mission statement and TOS for clarification.
5) This forum is NOT intended to replace or reduce the need for training with a qualified instructor. You might get more out of this forum if you have at least completed a DIR-f course.
6) The answers in this forum are member's best attempts to answer questions within, and according the DIR diving philosophy. If you wish to give a non-DIR answer, please do not post it in this forum. If you do not wish your question to be limited to DIR answer, please ask it in another applicable forum.

The DIR Practicioner's forum was created as an opt-in only forum because this one became so dominated by people who had an axe to grind with DIR and wanted to take it out on their fellow SB'ers who happened to dive that way. It became impossible to discuss DIR topics here ... so they had to create a new sub-forum where they could make the rules of discussion stricter and limit participation to only those who practice DIR (hence the name).

The rules posted above ... by NetDoc ... are supposed to apply to THIS forum.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Sloth]

BTW: Those special rules are for the "DIR Practitioners Zone," a different subforum than this one, where honest opinions that don't start with a kool-aid toast are prohibited.

Haha, with GUE and UTD divers all posting in that forum I promise you there is plenty of bickering. The only difference is it's a lot more cordial and well informed with everyone starting from a similar foundation and ideology. I just wish the number of real GUE/UTD trained divers were greater so we would have more people posting