American Air Refuses Oxygen to Dying Woman, Then 3 Equipment Failures

[DandyDon]

Thanks. That seems to offer info contradictory to Thal's as First Aid Oxygen is included onboard. I am familiar with Medical Oxygen being a "only on prior request with extra charges" deal.

This also sheds new light on the original story. It would have helped if this info had been included in the original, and if the reporter tried to obtain it and received "no comment" - s/he could have included that, too. I doubt the airline would have commented until they had to.

And perhaps the cousin was wrong about the bottles being empty and the machine not working?

It could be that this thread was premature based on the story that included the cousin's account only, but I still feel semi-justified at least, as we know the corporations are not going to tell us anything they don't have to.

 

[fisherdvm]

I don't remember enough about oxygen use. But as I recall, oxygen is contraindicated in folks with COPD and carbon dioxide retention. If you are not sure, you should not administer pure oxygen to such folks, as they can stop breathing (they needed the co2 to keep their respiratory drive). For that reason alone, I don't think that the flight attendant should be the one to determine if oxygen can be administered to the lady or not.

There is more to the story than we see here. But as I understand, one can file a lawsuit only if the negligent done changed the outcome. If the autopsy result noted something that oxygen can not help, I am not sure they have a case here.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thanks. That seems to offer info contradictory to Thal's as First Aid Oxygen is included onboard. I am familiar with Medical Oxygen being a "only on prior request with extra charges" deal.

This also sheds new light on the original story. It would have helped if this info had been included in the original, and if the reporter tried to obtain it and received "no comment" - s/he could have included that, too. I doubt the airline would have commented until they had to.

And perhaps the cousin was wrong about the bottles being empty and the machine not working?

It could be that this thread was premature based on the story that included the cousin's account only, but I still feel semi-justified at least, as we know the corporations are not going to tell us anything they don't have to.

Don, please read. I said nothing about 1st aid oxygen. What is on planes are small walk-around bottles, they have a mask and a shoulder strap, the are not demand or resuscitators. They serve the same purpose as the masks that drop from the overhead for the passengers, only these are for the crew and are designed to be carried so that they may, "move about the cabin."

The bottles of oxygen on passenger planes are walk-around bottles for the cabin crew. If there is a depressurization incident, masks for passengers drop from the overhead (you know the drill by now) but the cabin crew is supposed to use walk-around bottles. ...

 

[DandyDon]

I don't remember enough about oxygen use. But as I recall, oxygen is contraindicated in folks with COPD and carbon dioxide retention. If you are not sure, you should not administer pure oxygen to such folks, as they can stop breathing (they needed the co2 to keep their respiratory drive). For that reason alone, I don't think that the flight attendant should be the one to determine if oxygen can be administered to the lady or not.

There is more to the story than we see here. But as I understand, one can file a lawsuit only if the negligent done changed the outcome. If the autopsy result noted something that oxygen can not help, I am not sure they have a case here.

My personal view is if I am trapped on a plane and request oxygen, I don't want to have to argue...

Don, please read. I said nothing about 1st aid oxygen. What is on planes are small walk-around bottles, they have a mask and a shoulder strap, the are not demand or resuscitators. They serve the same purpose as the masks that drop from the overhead for the passengers, only these are for the crew and are designed to be carried so that they may, "move about the cabin."

Yep, you said there were two O2 sources on a plane - the crew bottles and the drop down masks (which produce O2 from a generator as I recall). This article said three kinds...
"There are different classifications for types of oxygen used in flight. The oxygen that passengers receive from masks that drop down from the ceiling is intended for emergency descents. There are also first-aid oxygen bottles, such as the kind requested on the American flight Friday, and oxygen supplied for pilots and flight attendants. Federal regulations require airlines to provide all of these."
Again, if I ever request one, I don't want to argue...

 

[Peter Guy]

But Don, I don't think even YOU would get O2 for treating diabetes although you asked for it.

What people seem to be missing here is that a very sick woman died while trapped in an aluminum tube and with very little access to any medical aid that could have been of any help. There are times when ***** happens and you are just going to die.

 

[medic001918]

I don't remember enough about oxygen use. But as I recall, oxygen is contraindicated in folks with COPD and carbon dioxide retention. If you are not sure, you should not administer pure oxygen to such folks, as they can stop breathing (they needed the co2 to keep their respiratory drive). For that reason alone, I don't think that the flight attendant should be the one to determine if oxygen can be administered to the lady or not.

There is more to the story than we see here. But as I understand, one can file a lawsuit only if the negligent done changed the outcome. If the autopsy result noted something that oxygen can not help, I am not sure they have a case here.

The hypoxic drive as it's commonly called in CO2 retainers is not entirely fact. There are all kinds of studies coming out saying that it doesn't even really exist. If someone is having difficulty breathing, you are supposed to supply them with oxygen. The hypoxic drive and their loss of respiratory effort would only occur after many hours on high flow oxygen...if it were to occur at all.

Now, all of that being said...what constitutes a failure? An empty oxygen bottle? Not really a failure, provided that they got one that was working for her. At work, we sometimes get fresh oxygen bottles that are really empty. They are sealed as if they are full, but for whatever reason when you go to use them they're empty. Who's at fault for this? The end user for not putting a regulator on every bottle to check it? The gas supplier for supplying a dead bottle in the first place? It's an open ended question.

The failure of the AED is another issue. Did the AED really fail, or did it not advise a shock? To the common person, they would expect it to provide the "needed" shock for the person in need. The reality though, is that there are only two heart rhythms that need to be shocked. Those are ventricular fibrillation and ventricular tachycardia. If this lady couldn't breathe, it's possible that she had a pulmonary emoblism which could have caused a "PEA" (pulsess electrical activity)...which isn't shockable. So is it this grieving family member's perception that the equipment "failed" or was there really a true equipment failure?

Also, let's not forget that flight attendants are trained minimally in emergency medical situations. It's not what they are expected to do on a day to day. They probably have little more than basic CPR and first aid for training.

Just thought I'd give the perspective of someone who deals with emergency medicine on a day to day basis...I'm a paramedic and the article raised all kinds of questions for me.

Shane

 

[ScubaTexan]

Also, let's not forget that flight attendants are trained minimally in emergency medical situations. It's not what they are expected to do on a day to day. They probably have little more than basic CPR and first aid for training.

You mean it's not as in-depth as our EFR w/AED training is? If it isn't, it should be.

 

[medic001918]

You mean it's not as in-depth as our EFR w/AED training is? If it isn't, it should be.

Even EFR with AED is minimal at best compared to the scope of medicine that someone experiencing a true medical emergency needs.

Shane

 

[ScubaTexan]

Even EFR with AED is minimal at best compared to the scope of medicine that someone experiencing a true medical emergency needs.

I can't -- and won't -- argue that.

 

[Phlipper]

I've never heard that before? Would you have a viewable source...?

I stand corrected on whether certain supplemental oxygen supplies can be used in an emergency medical situation. Here is a link by the .DOC file issued off the FAA website regarding passenger medical support information.

www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_in...e/media/Section II.4.1 Airline Operations.doc

The second to last paragraph makes the statement about On Board Oxygen and the use of Medical staff.