Question Am I wrong to not want a modern computer?

[dmaziuk]

In Suunto computers you will find 'fused RGBM'. This is another calculation of more or less RGBM, but what exactly is 'secret'. The older Suunto's had different 'RGBM' than the newer ones have.

That is the "processing power" issue: apparently the full thing requires quite a bit more oomph than was available in a wearable form factor in early 2000s, so different vendors run different dumbed-down "folded" versions of it.

Of course once they made them big enough: the EONs, they realized the dumbed down versions also burn much less battery so you want to still run them whenever you can and only switch to the "full" thing if you have to. So EONs "fuse" the two.

Or at least that's what I read on The Internet (so it must be true).

 

[Jai Bar]

That is simply not true. They are all built on tissue compartments and half-times, the only difference is in on-/off-gassing function. For "straight Haldanean" like ZH-L it's the straight log(2) of delta-P. Wienke modifies that with "Gradient Reduction" fudge coefficients, Thalmann changes that to straight line under certain conditions, and so on.

A nice read:

http://www.duikresearch.org/download/Publicaties/4.%20SDR%20rapporten/Haldane%20en%20bellen%202006.pdf

 

[llamadiver]

Don't limit yourself to newer options. Shearwater is fantastic. The Peregrine is geared towards recreational divers....doesnt take long to read the manual and you are on the way. User friendly and Shearwater offers excellent customer service. Check them out!

 

[dmaziuk]

A nice read:

http://www.duikresearch.org/download/Publicaties/4.%20SDR%20rapporten/Haldane%20en%20bellen%202006.pdf

The end result of the bubble woo in VPN is to change the off-gassing rate from the simple log(2) of dP to "quite another caliber of mathematics". Once you get down to calculating the actual no-stop times and decompression schedules, that's all it is.

 

[Bigbella]

Hi all,

I am new to diving and have been using an old Suunto Vyper Air. So far I like it, it tells me everything I want to know. I want to get a backup now, but not sure if I want a new computer or find another older one.

Am I wrong to be apprehensive about modern computers requiring software updates? I’m just thinking about practically every modern device I have being glitchy and prone to failures that require calling some tech center to get it sorted out… not how I want to spend precious vacation time, on the phone. I like the idea that back in the Vyper Air era, they had to get it right the first time, no “release it and fix it as problems come up” business model.

What are your experiences with modern computers like Perdix or Luna 2, etc.? Are there any models where glitches/failures are unheard of?

Thanks,

Provided that your old Suunto does the job, for the type of diving that you're doing, why not use it? I have some of their products which date back to 1992, pre-nitrox, which still function perfectly well, as backups or even primaries, from time to time.

While Suunto did have some long-lasting issues with faulty depth sensors and sizable lawsuits, mine -- knock on wood or Finnish plastics -- have all jibed with either my analogue gauges or other electronics.

In terms of products with updatable software, I have yet to have any issues with Shearwater, which offered some recent software updates -- and I really think that they've thought things through a bit further than that of smart-phone developers.

That said, I am generally the last in the water, when it comes to updates -- of any sort, having seen serial failures in the past with all manner of dive gear; and can clearly recall a comment from a friend who had worked for Apple, years ago, when faced with my spinning beach-ball of death frustration, "It's a wonder that any of this sh** works at all" . . .

 

[USdiver1]

That said, I am generally the last in the water, when it comes to updates -- of any sort; and clearly recall a comment from a friend who had worked at Apple, years ago, "It's a small wonder that any of this sh** works" . . .

You're always invited to join us double hose, vintage equipment divers. We inhabit both coasts [up to Sitka, AK in the Pacific] as well as points inland.

 

[scubadada]

...I am new to diving and have been using an old Suunto Vyper Air. So far I like it, it tells me everything I want to know. I want to get a backup now, but not sure if I want a new computer or find another older one...

Hi @Nostopin

Good question, you have received some good advice.

Your current computer is fine as long as it does not limit your dives with a shorter NDL than you would like or that your buddies might have. Of course, that assumes you have adequate gas for the longer dive.

Some Suunto computers run RGBM; Zoop Novo, Vyper Novo Light, Vyper Novo, and D4I Novo. These computers are generally considered moderate or middle of the road in the spectrum between conservative and liberal. The first dive is relaatively liberal. Repetitive dives can be more conservative if certain criteria are met such as short SI, fast ascent, others. If these conditions are not met, you may not notice it. Other Suunto computers run Fused RGBM or Fused RGBM 2; Eon Core, Eon Steel, D5. These computers can be set more liberal, around the setting of a Buhlmann GF high of 95.

Importantly, for choosing a backup computer is that the more conservative computer will always control your dive. If you exceed the NDL of the more conservative computer and do not satisfy the decompression obligation, you run the risk of going into violation gauge mode and losing the function of that computer for 24-48 hours. For that reason, it is reasonable to run computers with identical or similar NDLs. I run an Shearwater computer at GF high of 95 and an Oceanic computer running DSAT. They are reasonably similar and easy for me to dive with. The easiest thing is to run 2 computers running the same decompression algorithm.

Best of luck in choosing your 2nd computer. You may want to take into account your future dive plans and eventually get rid of your current Suunto.

 

[DiveProKoko]

Hi all,

What are your experiences with modern computers like Perdix or Luna 2, etc.? Are there any models where glitches/failures are unheard of?

Thanks,

How old is your car? Would you rather drive a 20 year old car, or a new one with new software, safety features, and up to date capabilities, etc. but refuse to get a new one simply because the old one hasn't broken down yet? You don't have to get "fancy", but to me the modern tech is worth having over what "might" go wrong.....which is nearly nothing. And if it does, those same software issues can actually make it easier to fix. And besides, reputable companies have excellent warranties in the off chance you get a lemon.

 

[Lorenzoid]

How old is your car? Would you rather drive a 20 year old car, or a new one with new software, safety features, and up to date capabilities, etc. but refuse to get a new one simply because the old one hasn't broken down yet? You don't have to get "fancy", but to me the modern tech is worth having over what "might" go wrong.....which is nearly nothing. And if it does, those same software issues can actually make it easier to fix. And besides, reputable companies have excellent warranties in the off chance you get a lemon.

I suppose I can understand the attraction of a new computer (or car), but I drive a 22 year-old SUV, which I absolutely still love like an old friend. It is reaching the point of obsolescence, though (hard to find parts), and I will soon reluctantly replace my old friend, just as I will replace my dive computer if and when it comes to that.

 

[dmaziuk]

How old is your car? Would you rather drive a 20 year old car,

I'd rather go a bit older, but I'd consider a 2000s WRX, so: yes.

or a new one with new software,

Most emphatically YES! Lane assist is the first off switch I look for in rentals, less obnoxious "improvements" I can generally ignore without turning them off.