Question Am I wrong to not want a modern computer?

[Jai Bar]

How old is your car? Would you rather drive a 20 year old car, or a new one with new software, safety features, and up to date capabilities, etc. but refuse to get a new one simply because the old one hasn't broken down yet? You don't have to get "fancy", but to me the modern tech is worth having over what "might" go wrong.....which is nearly nothing. And if it does, those same software issues can actually make it easier to fix. And besides, reputable companies have excellent warranties in the off chance you get a lemon.

I still prefer my 20 year old Vyper and enjoy diving with it like the first time. New computers I try a few dives (with old vyper.on wrist too) and then decide to pass them to wife, kids.

I am debating whether the analogy to new cars is good. Safety-wise, as I am a geek that compared various computers, analysed the logged profiles- and compared them with Matlab simulations of Haldane, Buhlmann, VPN and RGBM models, I find nothing wrong with the Vyper. It has indicators for ascent rate and cns, various types of alarms that ine can set and so on. As to "features" it lacks wireless data transfer and needs dedicated cable (which as a geek it was fun to DIY), it doesn't have an oled screen and you can't play tetris in it. On the other hand, the battery lasts for a loooong time and the darn thing is reliable you don't have to send it several times because of battery drain isssuelike some fancy computers that are mentiovery often here. In general, I have trust issues with rechargeable devices because battery life in whatever devices I have even owned never were en par with the claimed specs: be it countless of smartphones I owned, hybrid and electric vehicles, laptops or whatever. All of them have declined battery life very fast.

Ans as much as I love all these new fancy devices with all these features- really- for diving I dont want a fancy smartphone, I want a reliable device. If I want to play there is the surface intervals for that.

 

[Nostopin]

How old is your car? Would you rather drive a 20 year old car, or a new one with new software, safety features, and up to date capabilities, etc. but refuse to get a new one simply because the old one hasn't broken down yet? You don't have to get "fancy", but to me the modern tech is worth having over what "might" go wrong.....which is nearly nothing. And if it does, those same software issues can actually make it easier to fix. And besides, reputable companies have excellent warranties in the off chance you get a lemon.

Funny you should use cars as an analogy… The ECM just went out on my “new” car, so I’ve been driving my 1947 Dodge truck.

 

[sinidive]

One rather common reason for recreational divers to have a backup computer is for obvious reasons: you go into this 2 week galapagos liveaboard, and after the second day while you are donning the wetsuit you put the computer on the bench and the diver near you just sits down with full gear and the bottom of his tank meets with your computer. In this situation (been there done that) your computer is usually the one that breaks up. Now, you are computerless and supposed to wait 24 hours and switch to tables. Now if it was a regular diving back home I wouldn't care, but worked hard to set the galapagos trip is something completely different.

And for such purposes it makes sense for the backup conputer to be similar to the primary computer rather than having two different kinds of computers.

Use something cheap reliable, and where you can change batteries cheaply. Having 2 cheap Suunto models is probably enough.

 

[dmaziuk]

Funny you should use cars as an analogy… The ECM just went out on my “new” car, so I’ve been driving my 1947 Dodge truck.

All analogies suck, but car analogies are special.

 

[ScubaSquatch]

Hi all,

I am new to diving and have been using an old Suunto Vyper Air. So far I like it, it tells me everything I want to know. I want to get a backup now, but not sure if I want a new computer or find another older one.

Am I wrong to be apprehensive about modern computers requiring software updates? I’m just thinking about practically every modern device I have being glitchy and prone to failures that require calling some tech center to get it sorted out… not how I want to spend precious vacation time, on the phone. I like the idea that back in the Vyper Air era, they had to get it right the first time, no “release it and fix it as problems come up” business model.

What are your experiences with modern computers like Perdix or Luna 2, etc.? Are there any models where glitches/failures are unheard of?

Thanks,

There is a TON of liability involved with dive computers. Not saying glitches can't happen, but updates are very warranted if they come out and vetted pretty extensively. No manufacturer is going to want to risk a wrongful death lawsuit over a glitch in an update. I think your concern is a bit misplaced.

 

[GQMedic]

FWIW, I’m diving the UWATEC Ultra wrist computer, it’s 23 years old. I have an old suunto on my console too. They work, why fix them?

ETA; I’m the original owner of both.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Hi @Nostopin
Good question, you have received some good advice.
Your current computer is fine as long as it does not limit your dives with a shorter NDL than you would like or that your buddies might have. Of course, that assumes you have adequate gas for the longer dive.

Currently diving in Bohol. The guides are using Suunto Novo. On second and third dives the NDL on the Sunnto has meant some guides having to ascend to less than 10m depth. So today on a dive my guide and another diver ascend as guides Suunto has run out of NDL to stay at 15m depth. Max depth was 23m but after 30 mins I see the guide ascend. Funny thing after the dive the other diver is asking did you go into deco and I said no. He also asked why the guide didn't ask to check my air. I ask so why didn't you signal to check my air you don't need to have a guide do that? He's like yeah why didn't I just signal that myself lol. So he checked my SPG after the dive back on the boat and is like, OK plenty of air. I owned a Suunto Vyper till the pressure sensor crapped out. Suunto dealer refused to help and I had seen people diving the shearwater. I'm like, dang easy to see in any conditions so bought one. Could not be happier than with my Perdix.

With my shearwater on GF 45/95 I get a nice NDL. Last photo and video I had 5 mins to NDL... when done down to 2 mins to NDL but a small ascent and back to 22 mins NDL lol

Suunto are very conservative... will keep you safe for sure You may ask why did I take the pictures... to show the other diver I did not exceed NDL and my guide knows me well enough to know I won't either. He didn't have a DC.

When you do repetitive dives the NDL time on Suunto is really restrictive. My backup to my suunto is grey matter in the head and my Cressie Console.

One of the new shearwater updates allows one to enter their name and telephone number in the start up screen.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Don't limit yourself to newer options. Shearwater is fantastic. The Peregrine is geared towards recreational divers....doesnt take long to read the manual and you are on the way. User friendly and Shearwater offers excellent customer service. Check them out!

Yup had some divers with them in the last 2 days. Not one of the divers had learned about the Peregrine just plug and play. I showed them in air mode how to change the settings for more conservative or less conservative NDL times. They didn't know that had not read the manual lol. Oh well lol Nice that on the settings that least conservative actually shows GF 45/95 in the Peregrine screen.

 

[HydroHacker]

So first of all, if your current computer meets your needs - then there’s probably no urgent need to update.

I still use 10+ year old Predators for OC NDL diving. They work fine. The algorithms haven’t really changed much.

That said, as a software engineer I’d challenge your underlying logic that “older and simpler” means “more reliable”.

There’s an old mechanic joke - that the most reliable car isn’t the easiest to work on - it’s the one you don’t have to.

Electronics in general have gotten far more reliable, and older computers will eventually fail due to moisture creep or other types of degradation.

Of course, many newer electronics are less reliable due to poorer design or quality control - the trick is to replace your older model with a newer one of equivalent design and build quality.

Upgrades via downloadable firmware can introduce bugs due to poor QA practices - however that is also how existing bugs get fixed.

 

[CT-Rich]

Most people buy a new car because they want one, not need one. I dove the same computer for ten years and it was probably ten years old when I got it. It did everything I wanted until it started glitching and I replaced it. I was never in a dive situation with it where a complete failure of the the computer would have prevented a safe ascent. Why change it?

I replaced it with a couple of turkeys that were not suitable to my needs (they were not reliable). I bought a Peregrine which had most of what I valued and did what I needed. I have been very very happy with it to date.

If you like a particular computer and it does what you want, keep using it. Buying an identical back up would make sense, but you may find you are in the market again in a year or two because one or both of them may reach the end of their usable lives.