Am i approaching this right

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

inquisit

ScubaBoard Supporter
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
861
Location
Boulder, CO
# of dives
1000 - 2499
Is this for students with some knowledge of CCR or both no knowledge of both CCR and Helitrox?
The latter for IANTD's "CCR Advanced Recreational Trimix Diver". Required certs are Nitrox and Sport Deep Diver. 150 ft (45 m) depth limit with END <= 100 ft/30 m.

I would expect buoyancy to be within standards to pass (pay for instruction, not necessarily a cert). It's an open question whether someone without AN/DP would be able to do that without extending the class, but they are allowed to make the attempt.
 

broncobowsher

Contributor
Messages
2,983
Reaction score
2,647
Location
Arizona
I agree with @kensuf and the Fathom requirements to have AN/DP prior to going to CCR. I have no issue with all helium based courses being done on CCR, especially with cost and availability of helium where it is today. That said, Mod-1 is not the time to be learning bottle handling and gas-switching techniques and learning that you don't want to be in the water for more than an hour at any point in time. AN/DP is not cost prohibitive to do on open circuit since it is done without helium and I would strongly encourage anyone thinking about bypassing AN/DP on open circuit to re-evaluate.

Helitrox is a nothing course. There is no new information in terms of gas density, gas planning, decompression planning, or actual diving skills/techniques that you shouldn't already have from AN/DP *a third variable in gas calculations is not "new" in my opinion*, but you really shouldn't be learning all of that while you are trying to learn how to dive a rebreather. For those that already have AN/DP I have no objection to doing Mod-1 on Helitrox since it makes those 4-5ata dives much safer.
I am with this as well.

When you have a Nitrox mixing machine on your back, it really helps if you come into it with a good basic knowledge of what different and switching Oxygen levels are doing to you. Not learning that and trying to figure why your old skills don't work with CCR anymore.
 

king_of_battle

Contributor
Messages
148
Reaction score
99
Location
New Hampster
# of dives
1000 - 2499
I know Heather and Dave, I'm known to do private one on one day tutoring with them.
we've probably run into each other then. The nice thing about diving on their boat is how many different units are on there at any given time. I'm sure you are already doing so but its an opportunity to hear from the RB divers on what they like/dislike/changed on their units or past units. Most have BMCL units but I see Revos and occasionally SF2s and FMCL Prisms to round out opinions across the board.
 

billgraham

Contributor
Messages
388
Reaction score
165
Location
Marianna, Florida
I know Heather and Dave, I'm known to do private one on one day tutoring with them.
Funny, we all did our P1 training together! AN/DP is a good idea for a number of reasons, not the least of which is you won't be learning new physics in your CCR class. I know my friend has to re-teach it regularly and it's time you could be spending in the water learning diving stuff!
 

kensuf

ScubaBoard Sponsor
ScubaBoard Sponsor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
2,793
Reaction score
4,265
Location
Gainesville, FL
IANTD will do Helitrox aka Adv Recreational Trimix or whatever they call it - to 150ft - for CCR students with no tech experience or training.

And my experience in teaching this is that the students I have had try to do that wind up failing the course and so I will no longer offer that as an option (and the manufacturer for Fathom concurs and won't allow us to do that either). People lacking tech / deco experience are simply too overwhelmed to go from zero to completing a CCR deco course in 7 days time.
 

Wibble

Contributor
Messages
3,562
Reaction score
3,075
Location
UK
# of dives
500 - 999
And my experience in teaching this is that the students I have had try to do that wind up failing the course and so I will no longer offer that as an option (and the manufacturer for Fathom concurs and won't allow us to do that either). People lacking tech / deco experience are simply too overwhelmed to go from zero to completing a CCR deco course in 7 days time.
Thank you for confirming that.

CCR is hard and it needs time and practice to develop competence. You owe it to yourself as it’s a big investment.
 

Blugold

Registered
Messages
20
Reaction score
7
Location
Wisconsin
# of dives
200 - 499
Not sure it's practically possible to do the helitrox CCR course (45m/150ft, helium diluent) if you've no experience with diving using advanced nitrox and decompression procedures (AN/DP) on open circuit.

Would think it would be hugely overloading to get to grips with basic CCR skills, then take them to the next level and to the higher standards. Silly comparison: doing the OW and AOW together with no experience.


When you move to CCR, you *really* need solid MOD1 skills which will become the basis for all your CCR diving. The helitrox and deeper diving can -- and should -- wait for your core CCR skills to improve and solidify. Remember it's hours in the water on CCR that count along with the number of ascents you do and the time holding a stop at 6m/20ft ('cos that's hard and that's the most common deco stop).

If I went back in time to tell myself some tips, it would be to get *really* comfortable doing 30m/100ft dives and get in as many ascents as possible. Once they're better, then slowly progress to deeper diving. There's no short cuts to competence. Oh, and the "it tried to kill me" moment doesn't happen at 50 hours, it happens as soon as you think you're sorted; around 125 hours in my case. I definitely do not take CCR for granted as the thing will happily try to kill me again.
@Wibble I’m not as hung up on adding helitrox to the training or pushing depth, as much as I am adding a deco procedure element. I want to be able to easily transition into mild deco procedure dives after getting comfortable holding stops on my CCR.

I want to have the knowledge and certification to allow me to conduct dives where limited deco is required if traveling or abroad.

I fully understand and expect if someone is unable to handle stages or hold stops (as required in AN/DP) they should not be performing those types of dives.

My typical dive on the Great Lakes would be between 60ft-130ft. Once I’m more comfortable on the unit I’d love to roll into limited deco to get me more time on some of the deeper wrecks in that range.

I routinely carry a 40cf or 80cf pony bottle as an additional source of air (practicing deploying and storing) on most of my dives.

All that said, I thought doubling up on the IANTD certs would be a good fit. 🤷‍♂️

What are your thoughts??? Respect all the advice I can get from seasoned divers!
 

AJ

Contributor
Messages
798
Reaction score
509
Location
Netherlands
# of dives
500 - 999
It’s for students with NO tech experience/training. Down to 150ft. It’s deco diving. I know someone who recently did this exact class. Among those who teach this is Dr Doug Ebersole.

Just to clarify they will teach this as FIRST CCR class.

I wouldn’t want this myself. Glad I’m doing air dil aka Mod 1 before doing CCR Helitrox deco.
Not sure who teaches this, but to my knowledge you first have to pass MOD 1. Then dive for 25 hours or so till the instructor thinks you're ready and then go on to MOD 2 (Normoxic). That's what I did. My class mate is an OC normoxic instructor and did go the same route.

To my knowledge you can't go to MOD 2 directly. Maybe instructors can combine MOD 1 and MOD 2 in a single class for very experienced full trimix divers? Don't know about that.
 

Marie13

Great Lakes Mermaid
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
12,377
Reaction score
12,014
Location
Great Lakes
# of dives
200 - 499
AJ:
Not sure who teaches this, but to my knowledge you first have to pass MOD 1. Then dive for 25 hours or so till the instructor thinks you're ready and then go on to MOD 2 (Normoxic). That's what I did. My class mate is an OC normoxic instructor and did go the same route.

To my knowledge you can't go to MOD 2 directly. Maybe instructors can combine MOD 1 and MOD 2 in a single class for very experienced full trimix divers? Don't know about that.
IANTD instructors can offer a first CCR class to divers with NO deco training that takes them to 150ft/Adv Recreational Trimix. I know of two instructors who teach it as they talk about it on FB.
 

Valyngar

Contributor
Messages
245
Reaction score
108
Location
Finland
# of dives
200 - 499
Did with JJ TDI Helitrox when started CCR diving. Course was HARD, but manageable. It took 6 daving days and 1.5 theory days. It is doable, but you really have give your all. I had OC Trimix diving before though. Decos are quite short with 45m dives, max 30 minutes. First dives after course we bit hard to keep on same depth was bit sailing on 6-7 meter depth, not like now days when you can keep it within 20cm. Haven't dived with air diluent after course at all and when you dive more diliunet consumption keeps dropping. Nowdays about 0.06-0.09 bar/min
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Top Bottom