Alternate Inflation Regulators

[ElectricZombie]

Sydney_Diver once bubbled...

You are kidding. This is the same as with any Air Source, I teach my students skills with both alternate Octopus and Air2's as any good instructor would. It is up to the Diver to have the nessasary skills to use the equipment they have purchased and to seek additional training for it.

Yes, with proper training an AirII or just about anything else can be used effectively. You and I both know that many divers show up at the boat and have no clue as to what to do in the water. It's like their Instructor went to sleep during class. They don't train and should propably not be diving. Regardless, for some reason these people are allowed to dive. So, if they are going to do it anyway (they shouldn't), I think something a little easier to use is in order. (easier from their perspective)

Vent/Dump the Air from the opposite shoulder dump, all good BCD's have two shoulder dumps not just one. You should never need to add air to the BCD while accending, you should practice OOA problems often so if and when the time comes you will be ready for it.

You'd be suprised, a lot of them don't. I have the regular inflator dump and a horizontal rear dump, that's it. I did not mean to imply that air is added on ascent...bad idea...

Ideally, they should practice. I'm sure that the students we personally teach are proficient. I'm sure they could handle an OOA sucessfully. I'm refering to the other segment of the diving population who was certified at a resort, dives 2 times per year and cares little for practice.

Having breathed from a Scuba Pro Air2 at 180Ft to the surface I found it delivered more than enough air in the OOA situation. I have never seen a problem with students or certified divers grabbing the wrong hose when going for an Air2

My experience was just the opposite, the AirII breathed horribly. Odd, I've seen divers grab the snorkel instead of the AirII several times. This goes back to training and practice though.

As long as proper training has taken place with the equipment it presents no more problems than any other sort of Second stage device

If you practice had enough, you can make just about anything work. Even if you are proficient using the AirII, I think that there are better options out there.

IMHO
After approx 800 Dives with an Air 2 @ Recreational depths
Approx 200 OOA training exercises
and three real OOA scenarios
I have no issues with the ScubaPro Air2 it functions very well at recreational depths, provided correct training and buddy preparation, it has proven in my experience no more task loading then a Bungy rig or traditional Octo placement

I used an AirII for a while early on and could easily handle an OOA situation using that method. I then went to a traditional octo and finially a bungied backup. Of the 3, the bungied backup seems to hold every advantage and has none of the disadvantages IMHO. Everyone thinks their particular setup is best, but when you look at it logically, the AirII loses to the bungied backup.

Again, whatever method you choose, practice is the key.

We may have to agree to disagree! ut:

 

[DiveTub]

The Air2 does the job it is intended to do at recreational depths.

Outside of those depths IE Extended range then yes an octo on a bungy does a great job. But from my experience the Air2 is a top little piece of dive kit for recreational divers. It functions and performs well in an OOA situation and like any new equipment the user should be trained in its use and practice its intended use often .

 

[Dr. Jay]

I've got a Sherwood Shadow + ........ and I hate that thing! I had the same reasoning originally. "It was eliminating an extra hose." However, if you look at the Shadow +, the reg is actually above the inflator. If you put thing thing in your mouth, it's really uncomfortable. I guess in an OOA it would be ok. But I also have had trouble finding my inflator hose sometimes, and the Shadow+ is kind of bulky. I suppose a lot comes down to personal preference.

I decided to get a standard octo. I ordered some bungee from ReefScuba and I'm going to make a necklace for it .

Anyone want a Sherwood Shadow + Octo ? :bonk:

 

[blawler1]

It is similar to the Shadow + as it is an inline octo rather than totally combined inflator/octo unit. I have to agree with Dr. Jay that this set up is a little awkward and heavier than the inflator alone; however, I have gotten used to it and always try it out on my first dive of the trip to get reacquainted to the short , restrictive hose. I have thought of going to a single unit like the Air 2 (I wish Mares would come out with one so I could be certain it would fit my BC) but I'm pretty sure I don't want to go back to carrying a full octo.

 

[RICHinNC]

I decided on the SeaQuest Pro Qd with an airsource. My main reason is that I believe in fully seperate alternate air sources on every dive and that means....to me....a pony bottle. The Pro allows me to get rid of one octo....while replacing it with another granted... but another with a whole different purpose.

I def agree that training is key. And, so a predive breifings and equipment reviews. Last year I was lucky to get in 18 ocean dives and other than me and who i was buddied up with....i never saw one single buddy pair conduct a decent predive equipment check. And no....they were not all long term buddies that didnt need to.

On one dive off St. Thomas....the boat crew was really nice and energetically offered to set up everyones equipment. My feeling...my equipment...my life....my responsibility. One lady let them set up her gear and not only did they do it incorrectly....they missed the fact an o'ring had blown from the second stage and as soon as she hit the water and started down she was gulping in sea water. And, then came the panick ascent to the top. Luckily she wasnt more than 5 to 10 feet down. A little off topic here i guess...but what the heck....dive safe

 

[vertaqua]

RICHinNC once bubbled...
I decided on the SeaQuest Pro Qd with an airsource. My main reason is that I believe in fully seperate alternate air sources on every dive and that means....to me....a pony bottle.

This is kind of off topic but not too far for a discussion. Do you really need a fully independant alternate air source when:
1. you always dive under 130 ft and a majority of your dives are under 60 ft
2. your diving includes no overhead enviroments like caves, penetrating wrecks, ice
3. you always dive with a buddy who has a dependant alternate air source.
Just a thought

 

[RICHinNC]

This is kind of off topic but not too far for a discussion. Do you really need a fully independant alternate air source when:
1. you always dive under 130 ft and a majority of your dives are under 60 ft


In my hubble opinion...yes....depth is never a consideration to me regarding redundancy. I am one of those that believe in diving the same configuration everytime. Now I dont tec dive and I understand that type of diving calls for more changes in configurations...however...for lack of any other term...."simple" divng is what I do...and my configuration is the same every time. Depth has little relationship to drowning. Hang on there gang before your crucify me....what I mean is...you can drown at any depth depending on the situation....pucker factor....your ability to control the pucker factor response...and the like.


2. your diving includes no overhead enviroments like caves, penetrating wrecks, ice


Each of your examples dictate that you have specialized gear....and use other than my...simple...diving techniques. However even if you are not on a testosterone dive, the point is you never know what you might run into. And, the biggest problem with not knowing what you are going to run into is not knowing what you will need to rectify the situation. Same config every time....redundancy. Examples... already mentioned the pony bottle....big believer in that at any depth... Knives...I carry a BC mounted blunt nose knife as my primary. (have long been over the machette strapped to my calf!!) ... my redundancy is a small folding knife that easily fits into one of my bc pockets...and... it has a cord tied to it so that if i use it...and the only reason i would is because i dropped my primary....if i drop my secondary at least i have a chance to get it back with the cord.

3. you always dive with a buddy who has a dependant alternate air source.


Dont mean to start any doodoo here. I believe all dives....including buddy dives....should be TREATED as solo dives. In my opinion....a diver must be able to take care of him/her self in all situations where they are still concious....and a ffm would help in the unconcious. If you can not take care of yourself...how on earth do you (and thats the southern "you" meaning everyone...not you personally) have the audacity...smugness..whatever to think you (again the southern you) can save someone else??? How many "buddy' dives have you been on and your buddy was no where near where he or she could help you? Is it great to have a buddy...yep....is it prudent to have a buddy....yep....should you dive without a buddie....not going there!!! ,<<<<arduous...ever start that solo diving section>>>>
[
Without sounding too philisophical, I think of myself as the core...the foundation.....of a diving team. I want my buddy to feel the same. Each should be self sufficient in equipment and in technique and in capability. Thats a hard person to find in a boat full of people who havent dived since being certified two years ago. The last boat I was on in St. Thomas...a person (will not specify gender!!) put on their rented gear...held up the inflator hose...and with a weird expression asked...what does this thing do??? It was like a fart in a small pool. Everyone just moved back. The guide stuck to that person like glue the rest of the dives.

The diving industry does all it can to get people to become involved. It advertises the adventure of diving...it doesnt stress the danger....it portrays the romantic side of the sport....it doesnt talk about the potential for injury and death. So many forget diving is risky business. As an old chum of mine used to say... "Go out and screw around....odds are you will get screwed"
(Hope that doesnt break any rules here.)

Dont mean to write the grand novel here. I just believe in taking care of me...and by doing so...i will be prepared to take care of others. Also believe in redundancy...cant say that enuf.
later...dive safe...

 

[MikeS]

I suggest that anyone thinking of buying an alternate inflation regulator try it first. And I don’t just mean in the pool I mean in a simulated OOA exercises from as deep as you ever intend to go.

Obviously, they work or no manufacturer would be able to sell them without being sued by Lawman. But, how well do they work compared to the alternatives such as a traditional octopus or long hose with bungeed backup. I’ve tried all three in simulated OOA exercises and would rate them as follows:

Alternate Inflation Regulator -- Even during the low stress environment of training it is very difficult to maintain a 30-foot per minute assent rate. While it is possible, I think that everyone would agree that it creates additional task loading since the inflator/deflator hose no longer functions as well with the attached regulator in your mouth. Swimming horizontally such as swimming to the anchor line is even more difficult.

Traditional Octopus – A traditional octopus works well and allows a 30-foot per minute assent rate to be maintained. However, it takes quit a bit of coordination between the two divers who will be under quite a bit of stress in an actual OOA situation. Swimming horizontally, such as swimming to the anchor line, is more difficult if not impossible without a lot of practice.

Long Hose with Bungeed Backup – I think that this is the best option. With a long hose, I use a six-foot now, there is enough length to allow each diver to independently control their own buoyancy. This is the best option for swimming horizontally as well as maintaining a steady rate of ascent. This can be important if there is a current and you want to come up at the boat. It is also much easier to gauge your rate of ascent if you have a visual reference such as an anchor line.

Most importantly, try out any option you think you might want to go with it before investing any money in it. What sold me on the long hose was doing OOA drills with Sillygrendel after he got his while I still had a traditional octopus. We both simulated OOA situations. The difference in mobility while maintaining buoyancy control between long hose and traditional octopus while sharing air is astounding.

So while an alternate inflation regulator will work and does away with the need for an octopus hose, there’s no free lunch. You’re adding additional task loading and will have less capability than the other options. I think the key is with whichever option you choose, practice, practice, practice!

MIke

 

[ScubaRider]

HI Everyone
I'm a newbie , So could someone explain the bungied backup ?
What it is and the componets in it ?
Thanks

 

[runvus4]

I do think that with proper familiarity with both your buddies gear and your own gear, alternate 2nd stages intergrated with a BC inflator can be used fairly safely. It's just not the particular redundency setup that I prefer.

My preference is to be secure in the fact that should my BC inflator fail, it is due to the inflator only, not because of an inexpensive Air 2 intergrated with it. I also prefer that should I loose my BC inflator, I don't automaticly loose my secondary air as well.

Also, I believe that every dive should operate in teams (ie not solo dives) but every diver should try to be as self suficient as possible, and try not to rely on a buddy for just any problem. I think that buddies should be there as a falsafe in case of catostrophic equipment failure or failure of the person diving. Any additional help in less catostrophic settings should be considered "iceing on the cake" so to speak, certainly welcome and gladly accepted, but not expected/required (or legal obligation as raised by another thread).

As an aditional note, if you somehow magicly loose both your primary and secondary 2nd stage and still have air in your tanks, and your secondary 2nd stage is not intergrated with the BC inflator hose, you can still use that as an emergency octo by holding down the inflator and purge buttons and breath from the freeflow.