Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

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Mark,

Take a look at my first post in this thread. I acknowledged that tech divers and RB diver in particular routinely push the envelope and use many things "off label" I have zero problem with that. They are after all risking their own life and maybe their teammates. Generally they are not putting others at risk.

IMO there is a huge difference between using an O2 cell contrary to the manufacturers recommendations, or using a given scuba valve with 100 O2 when the maker said not to, and altering the markings on pressure vessels, or knowingly selling tanks that have been altered to appear to be in compliance. I have no idea if Add Helium did so, none. I have no axe to grind, none. As I stated earlier I sincerely hope that no illegal actions were taken by anybody, and that what we are witness to is a pissing match between business partners that includes false allegations, divorce can be messy.

If such alterations were made to tanks it is a serious issue, laws were broken and divers were defrauded. Let's hope that is not the case.

Tobin

Tobin you know I respect you and value your opinion a great deal. To quote you "I have no idea if Add Helium did so, none." That Is my rub with this thread, not one person on this thread KNOWS if these tanks are illegal. Not one person on this thread knows IF those alagations are proven true that AH or Peter is responsible for it.
All we have for facts is the safety track record as of now is excellent without one safety incident that anyone knows of.
The name of this thread is "Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased". I would like it to be on record WHO alleges these tanks are illegal and what PROOF do you have? I would also suggest that the same person should come forward with this proof or STFU to be blunt.
The hateful wording form those on this post that obviously have bad blood with Peter takes away from people like you that speak objectively. This thread is not about opinions is is about serious legal allegations and should be backed up with proof.
 
These has been more than enough factual information posted in this thread regarding the Chinese wrapped cylinders which when coupled with the product details on the Add Helium website that IMHO a reasonable person can draw conclusions regarding the provenience and the legality of the cylinders in question.

In my view the legality of the tanks is variable in application and there does exist some grey areas that AH sought to exploit. However, I suspect that on balance the cylinders were put on the market knowing that they would be used in manners that makes them subject to regulation but hoping to be able to loop hole thru it.

It somewhat reminds me of all the diesel tunes on the market that were sold as "for off road use only" while they knew fully they would be used on road. It cost the manufs of the tunes million in fines. (EPA Fines DPF Delete Manufacturers Millions)
 
Mark,

He abandoned their use. It was a transient workaround for the rEvo being too heavy. And it worked for him when he was flying to places that didn't have rental cylinders available. Times have changed and there's no reason now to use then. The rEvo repair place in NJ was selling them too. That's all old history.

And with all respect Paul is not an authority on high pressure cylinders. Your bottles are likely fine "for a while". But in salt water? Really: Be careful. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. Ask yourself "why am I accepting this additional risk" and then "is it worth it". Only you can decide.


Absolutely not, we at Ocean Edge Outfitters never did anything with a composite cylinder.
We did not...
Get any from China
Get any from Paul at rEvo rebreathers
Get any from Add Heluim
Sell any
Service any
Distribute any
 
I would like it to be on record WHO alleges these tanks are illegal and what PROOF do you have?.

Mark, you're showing a small scale version of the Stockholm Syndrome. You're invested in believing what's not true and defending the indefensible in the face of plain evidence for a reason that anyone who's taken a few psych courses can identify. Mostly you're emotionally invested in a belief system based on the fact that a decision that you made (and paid hard cash for) was predicated on your best beliefs, and to abandon that belief system is more painful than accepting that you got suckered in. It's like the "what rebreather is best" debate. At some point it turns into religion rather than reason

Nobody likes making a mistake. And you're defending (to beat a dead horse) a known felon who's already aided and abetted a convicted murderer to carry out another crime in which human life was placed below money. Let's frame the seriousness of that. If the guy with the gun had shot someone in the robbery, your friend Sotis would have been guilty of murder too and would have already been lashed to a gurney at Stark and shot full of barbiturates in front of witnesses. Florida doesn't screw around. It's not something that you just say "I'm sorry" for. And on one day of his life, Sotus thought that risk was ok in order to make a buck. Do you really think he gives a **** about you?


It's hard to accept that you might be wrong in your judgement of A: Him, and B: your decision to lay out cash because you did so. That's human nature.

It's not rational. But it's "taking sides with your captor" (see what I referenced above, the Stockholm Syndrome)

Most people would just be pissed off to have been taken advantage of. Others react like you are. That's part of what makes us each different as people. It's all a self defense mechanism


To your subject: there been plenty of proof here that the cylinders are "illegal", or at the very least "not legal for use" in the ways that you want to. I'll lay it out:

Legality:

1: Due to lack of DOT approval YOU, meaning the guy you're looking at in the mirror when you shave, yes YOU can't legally take them on a commercial dive boat, as per what Wookie (and the wonder cat) have brought forth. That was news to me. There's no argument that they aren't DOT.

2: Ian has recited the trail of the CE falsification if you read what he wrote for comprehension. They haven't passed the slightest bit of scrutiny under CE, and even more so CE DOES NOT "certify" cylinders for legality. So CE by itself doesn't mean **** even if the tags weren't made up.

3: There is no standard set by any nation as certification on these cylinders. None. Not Norwegian, or UK, or US, or Transport Canada, or any. They really aren't legal "anyplace where high pressure cylinders are regulated"

Dude: what other proof do you want?

As for safety (as opposed to legality: We have a very highly qualified fabric and composite materials engineer telling you that they have failure modes that can't be tested for, and which may not be evident immediately.


It's not really debatable that these cylinders are bad.

Really.

But rather than look at all of this with open eyes, you're preferring to believe a guy who conspired with a convicted murderer out on parole to drive the cut-out car after an armed robbery, and who then lived on the lam with 5 false ID's and who sold used cars state-to-state and wasn't caught until he was featured on Americas Most Wanted.

Because... You... Trust...him... More... Than... All ... That... Evidence....

I see.

That makes perfect sense.

On the planet Trafalmador ( who can make that cultural reference?).

>bangs head on desk< Damn that hurt. Stupidity SHOULD hurt. (Rubs head). I won't do that again. And you should learn your lesson too. Only a fool bangs his head on the desk twice.

It's ok. Why don't you just go ask for your money back and move on? Stick Ali 13's on your rig like the rest of us and go diving.
 
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Yes, must be someone else.
Closest thing we have had was the Luxfer 106 composite cylinder in the store.
has this convinced you that you should carry the Chinese tanks? ;-)
 
No? It must have been someone else.

Yes Shawn, once again it must have been someone else???? The more you cerich continue to provide misinformation to inflame only brings you both closer to a liable suit. I cant expect you to remember the facts if can remember your name is Shawn... Mark Flory laid it out; all opinions no facts..
 
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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