Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

[St John the Diver]

Follow follow on to above, and as an addendum to the long hydrotest post above: The "+" stamping, allowing a 10% overfill, is awarded based on a better than required ratio of permanent to temporary expansion in hydrotest. Again it goes back to plastic versus elastic.

 

[cerich]

Not for cylinders not presented for carriage by common carrier. Private use isn't regulated. Read the CFR.

Offered for carriage (there's a definition of "carriage" you should read. And Wookies boat doesn't meet it): cylinder needs to be DOT qualified, tested by hydrotest, and filled not above stamped working pressure or 10% over if stamped with a "+".

Private use: it's the Wild West. Y'all be careful now, hear?

it doesn't say by common carrier, it states for transportation.

 

[MarkFlory]

the tanks being discussed are the Chinese ones. So when you say "these tanks" well...

However,if you want to discuss the Luxfer..what particular knowledge does a CCR manuf have with regards to Luxfers testing and recommendations that lead him to believe that Luxfers recommendations should be ignored? Do you even know?

Look Cerich , read my post again, I was referring to how Paul started experimenting using luxfer tanks on his rEvo back in 2006 but then ended up using the tanks from China for himself, he had them at DEMA and I was told he was the one that sourced the valves for the China tanks. I trust his judgment over all of you Industry experts.
I'm done commenting on this because this is about hate of AH and not safety.

 

[St John the Diver]

Cerich,

You need to dig into the definitions area of the CFR. Both "offered" and "transportation" have legal definitions.

To simplify things, you can't "offer" something to yourself so what you do with your own stuff is your business. Stupidity isn't illegal yet. Just painful at times.

 

[Wookie]

Not for cylinders not presented for transportation by common carrier. Private use isn't regulated. Read the CFR.

Offered for transportation (there's a definition of both "offered" and of "transportation" you should read. And Wookies boat doesn't meet it): cylinder needs to be DOT qualified, tested by hydrotest, and filled not above stamped working pressure or 10% over if stamped with a "+".

Private use: it's the Wild West. Y'all be careful now, hear?

49CFR176.200 indicates that you need to find a different definition of "Carriage". I agree that going out on your own boat with your own cylinders filled by your own compressor is not regulated.

Commerce
Commerce means trade or transportation in the jurisdiction of the United States within a single state; between a place in a state and a place outside of the state; that affects trade or transportation between a place in a state and place outside of the state; or on a United States-registered aircraft.

Carrier
Carrier means a person who transports passengers or property in commerce by rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, or vessel.

Transport
Transportation or transport means the movement of property and loading, unloading, or storage incidental to that movement.

From 49 CFR 171.8 - Definitions and abbreviations

 

[iain/hsm]

I If, however, you bring them to my boat, you need to tell me. As you did. And I filled them. But I knew that I was out of compliance with DOT, and I accepted the risk of getting caught. But then, I have 2 liter steels too.

Frank.

But did you know at the time that the ceritfication was counterfeit?
Did you know the Label was invalid
Did you know the supplier was a scuba shop out of Sweden selling Womens wear?
Did you know Peter Sotis stated he did the QA
Did you know that Add Helium statement on the product was:
............................................................................................................
"We make no secret they are manufactured in China. Lots of I've gear is manufactured in China. Chinese manufacture doesn't make something a bad product, provided it is done so to the specifications of the purchaser, with a good QA program." (Peter Sotis Add Helium)

In the case of these tanks, we do not import them from China directly. We purchase them from a European distributor who has them made to their specifications for use in diving applications and for use with 100% o2, and does their own QA. (Peter Sotis Add Helium)

As far as CE, these cylinders are represented to us as being CE certified. True the statement on our website that CE exceeds DOT is a bit ambiguous. These cylinders have a working pressure of 300 bar and a maximum rated pressure of 450 bar. This is far above the pressure they will see under normal use in the US (~250 bar,) and that is why we make that statement. (Peter Sotis Add Helium)
...............................................................................................................


Did you know that Carbon Fibre is available in white? But only in China.
Do you have employees filling scuba tanks on your "boat"
Was this client and you the only for only folk on board at the time.

 

[kelemvor]

49CFR176.200 indicates that you need to find a different definition of "Carriage". I agree that going out on your own boat with your own cylinders filled by your own compressor is not regulated.

I think you must have quoted the wrong regulation. When I look that up, I get:
http://www.lynden.com/learn/HazMat/docs/176/49cfr176.200.pdf

§ 176.200 General stowage requirements.
(a) Each package of Class 2 (compressed gas) material being transported by vessel must be prevented from making direct contact
with the vessel's deck, side, or bulwark by dunnage, shoring, or other effective means.
(b) When cylinders of Class 2 (compressed gas) materials being transported by vessel are stowed in a horizontal position, each tier
must be stowed in the cantlines of the tier below it, and the valves on cylinders in adjacent tiers must be at alternate ends of the
stow. Each tier may be stepped back and the ends alternated in order to clear the flange. Lashing must be provided to prevent any
shifting.
(c) When cylinders of Class 2 (compressed gas) materials being transported by vessel are stowed in a vertical position they must
be stowed upright in a block and cribbed or boxed in with suitable dunnage. The box or crib must be dunnaged at least 10 cm (3.9
inches) off any metal deck. The cylinders in the box or crib must be braced to prevent any shifting. The box or crib must be
securely chocked and lashed to prevent any shifting.
(d) Any package containing Division 2.3 (poison gas) materials must be stowed separate from all foodstuffs.
(e) Class 2 (compressed gas) materials may not be stowed “on deck” over a hold or compartment containing coal.
(f) Class 2 (compressed gas) material must be kept as cool as practicable and be stowed away from all sources of heat and ignition.
[Amdt. 176–30, 55 FR 52704, Dec. 21, 1990 , as amended at 68 FR 61942, Oct. 30, 2003]

 

[cerich]

Look Cerich , read my post again, I was referring to how Paul started experimenting using luxfer tanks on his rEvo back in 2006 but then ended up using the tanks from China for himself, he had them at DEMA and I was told he was the one that sourced the valves for the China tanks. I trust his judgment over all of you Industry experts.
I'm done commenting on this because this is about hate of AH and not safety.

Look Cerich , read my post again, I was referring to how Paul started experimenting using luxfer tanks on his rEvo back in 2006 but then ended up using the tanks from China for himself, he had them at DEMA and I was told he was the one that sourced the valves for the China tanks. I trust his judgment over all of you Industry experts.
I'm done commenting on this because this is about hate of AH and not safety.

I did read the post again,your screenshot didn't mention Chinese tanks, just Luxfer.

it is about safety.. you keep insisting we are doing this over Sotis, if it was anybody I would still have posted this.

I find it sad that you will trust a convicted felon over industry experts.

 

[St John the Diver]

Look Cerich , read my post again, I was referring to how Paul started experimenting using luxfer tanks on his rEvo back in 2006 but then ended up using the tanks from China for himself, he had them at DEMA and I was told he was the one that sourced the valves for the China tanks. I trust his judgment over all of you Industry experts.
I'm done commenting on this because this is about hate of AH and not safety.

Mark,

He abandoned their use. It was a transient workaround for the rEvo being too heavy. And it worked for him when he was flying to places that didn't have rental cylinders available. Times have changed and there's no reason now to use then. The rEvo repair place in NJ was selling them too. That's all old history.

And with all respect Paul is not an authority on high pressure cylinders. Your bottles are likely fine "for a while". But in salt water? Really: Be careful. Nobody wants to see anyone get hurt. Ask yourself "why am I accepting this additional risk" and then "is it worth it". Only you can decide.

 

[Wookie]

I think you must have quoted the wrong regulation. When I look that up, I get:
http://www.lynden.com/learn/HazMat/docs/176/49cfr176.200.pdf

No, that's correct. It's the requirements to transport class 2 compressed gas by vessel. Compressed air is a class 2 gas.