Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

[St John the Diver]

I'm not being misleading I said " AFTER trying luxfer I'm fairly certain Paul ENDED UP using these tanks.

No, actually he ended up making titanium rebreathers to deal with the fact that the SS one is too heavy in a wetsuit rather than to try to fix its buoyancy by using composite cylinders. The composite bottles were used for a while to make up for the over-dense chassis of a stainless steel rEvo before he started building them from titanium for wetsuit divers.

 

[Wookie]

All of that's exactly true. There's no requirement to hydrotest scuba bottles. It's just industry standard. And there are perfectly safe non-DOT cylinders. We fill British stamped Faber bottles without thinking twice. It's because we trust Faber. The odd Mark-15 sphere gets filled too. As do euro-spec 3 litre rebreather bottles. But I would never in a million years fill aluminum/composite cylinders no matter where they were made that have been used in salt water. Not Draeger, not US made SCBA cylinders, and most certainly not Chinese made bottles with fake CE on them. And why in the world would anyone use them? For every ounce of weight you remove from them you need to add an ounce of lead someplace. Unless you want to drag them into the Thai jungle for diving in some hole in the ground and can stuff your weight pockets full of stones when you get there you're not saving any weight.

I think the demonstrated problem here is lack of integrity regarding selling these using fake "certification" weasel-words. And the sideshow of what the principal in AH has done with his life isn't exactly something that suggests confidence in ethical practices and thus direct inspire confidence in these cylinders.

I think your statement There's no requirement to hydrotest scuba bottles. It's just industry standard. is too far reaching. It is true if you do not offer the cylinders in transport, but it must be remembered that a dive boat is transport. So, if you have these cylinders and take them on the dive boat for a dive to the ledges, you have offered the cylinders in transport in commerce. The cylinder owner is the offerer, and therefore out of compliance.

So is the short answer to my question yes they are legal to own and fill in the in the US?
The the restrictions come in at "offered for transportation"
The rest are guidelines, using the word "should" and not the word "required"

I did talk to the DOT before I bought my own personal compressor to find out what was required of me to fill my own tanks and was surprised that there was absolutely nothing I needed to do legally.
I was told the regulations on all of these tanks including welding tanks is all concerning transportation not ownership or use . OSHA required my Helium and O2 bottles to be chained up or secured, But that was really for commercial use only. I know civil liability is a whole different story if someone gets hurt ,But at the end of the day these tanks are perfectly legal to own and fill in the USA for private use.

Yes, if you own the cylinder, and the compressor, and the boat, you are clean. If, however, you bring them to my boat, you need to tell me. As you did. And I filled them. But I knew that I was out of compliance with DOT, and I accepted the risk of getting caught. But then, I have 2 liter steels too.

 

[redacted]

anyhow,Luxfer is pretty clear on using their wrapped cylinders for diving..don't. Except the one cylinder that has been approved

Underwater use of Luxfer full-wrap Type 3 carbon composite cylinders

L6X® Hoop-wrap SCUBA cylinder

Hmm..wonder why they would do that? Oh,I have a idea,maybe they know something about the science

Luxter does not offer any scientific explanation for such a restriction. They only say:

"According to governing standards to which Luxfer's Type 3 cylinders are designed and approved, these cylinders are not approved for underwater service and should not under any circumstances be used for SCUBA diving, closed-circuit rebreather devices, underwater gas storage or any related underwater applications. These limitations apply to both fresh water and salt water. Aforementioned standards include but may extend beyond ISO 11119, DOT-CFFC, HSE-AL-FW2 and EN12245. "

 

[St John the Diver]

I'm fairly certain the industry standard is 15 years for the lifespan of these cylinders . Five years was my comfort point.

Might be. I ran a hydrotest facility for five years but we didn't handle composite cylinders for the obvious reasons. I know that they do have a finite life. If you have read fifteen years that's likely true.

 

[iain/hsm]

I'm not being misleading I said " AFTER trying luxfer I'm fairly certain Paul ENDED UP using these tanks.

Then Paul as Add Helium may have to consder a recall of these cylinders for a full refund.
Unless they can fudge the CE requrement again this time to include using imported counterfeit products
with self style "Cave fill" QA

 

[cerich]

Luxter does not offer any scientific explanation for such a restriction. They only say:

"According to governing standards to which Luxfer's Type 3 cylinders are designed and approved, these cylinders are not approved for underwater service and should not under any circumstances be used for SCUBA diving, closed-circuit rebreather devices, underwater gas storage or any related underwater applications. These limitations apply to both fresh water and salt water. Aforementioned standards include but may extend beyond ISO 11119, DOT-CFFC, HSE-AL-FW2 and EN12245. "

just because they don't lay out the why not, it's a safe assumption that they know.

I am pretty sure if they felt they were safe for scuba use they would try and sell them for that market. They did make one.

 

[St John the Diver]

I think your statement There's no requirement to hydrotest scuba bottles. It's just industry standard. is too far reaching. It is true if you do not offer the cylinders in transport, but it must be remembered that a dive boat is transport. So, if you have these cylinders and take them on the dive boat for a dive to the ledges, you have offered the cylinders in transport in commerce. The cylinder owner is the offerer, and therefore out of compliance.

Yes, if you own the cylinder, and the compressor, and the boat, you are clean. If, however, you bring them to my boat, you need to tell me. As you did. And I filled them. But I knew that I was out of compliance with DOT, and I accepted the risk of getting caught. But then, I have 2 liter steels too.

Like I said: it's just an industry standard. You're the industry and you can add whatever safety margins you like within your own realm of power. You have Wookie-Power. Use it wisely.

 

[cerich]

Like I said: it's just an industry standard. You're the industry and you can add whatever safety margins you like within your own realm of power. You have Wookie-Power. Use it wisely.

In the US,visual is a industry standard, hydro is not, it's a regulatory standard

 

[St John the Diver]

In the US,visual is a industry standard, hydro is not, it's a regulatory standard

Not for cylinders not presented for transportation by common carrier. Private use isn't regulated. Read the CFR.

Offered for transportation (there's a definition of both "offered" and of "transportation" you should read. And Wookies boat doesn't meet it): cylinder needs to be DOT qualified, tested by hydrotest, and filled not above stamped working pressure or 10% over if stamped with a "+".

Private use: it's the Wild West. Y'all be careful now, hear?

 

[boulderjohn]

I am making the following plea as just another reader trying to understand all of this and not in my role as a moderator.

I assume some of you are typing very quickly and sometimes in a state of high emotion. Whatever the reason, more than a few of the posts in this thread have an unusually high number of punctuation errors and other typing errors that are interfering with communication. I have read a number of passages over and over again trying to figure out what it was intended to say if it weren't for the errors. In most cases i was able to figure it out, but in some cases I gave up. Please take a moment before posting to make sure your wording is clear. I greatly appreciate it.