Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

[MarkFlory]

actually I was not aware of that either. Are they still selling them?

That is the problem with bashing the **** out of someone before your have all the facts bro

 

[cerich]

That is the problem with bashing the **** out of someone before your have all the facts bro

is that a yes or a no?

You seem to believe that two wrongs make a right... guess what? They don't.

If they were selling them it was wrong, just as wrong as Sotis/AH selling them.

 

[jseyfert3]

I like this little snippet...
(2) the scuba instructor who transports scuba tanks for use by his (paying) students as part of their instruction is subject to the HMR;

PHMSA - Interpretations - Interpretation #09-0220

interesting and have virtually never seen DOT regs complied with with regards to vehicle markings when doing so.

My SCUBA instructor would lay a bunch of tanks across the back of the van then layer a second layer on top, followed by the gear bags. Certainly not secured by any means.

Does the HMR also list handling of the tanks when moving them by hand? When I was a security officer, I saw the guys delivering compressed gas tanks handle them...well, they were fairly standard size tanks for commercial gas use, the ones about 4' tall. He'd take two tanks, stand them on the ground after taking them off the truck, then with the top of each in one hand he'd lean them both at an angle and roll the bottom along the ground to bring them from the truck to the tank storage area.

I stand corrected. I haven't run a hydro facility in the last 25 years. Fiber wrapped tanks were a novelty then, and I'm not surprised the regs have changed. Duly noted, thanks.

The balance of the information on plastic versus elastic is just basic materials science.

Thanks again.

Ah, that makes sense.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was a volunteer firefighter and composite tanks are used virtually in all departments for the SCBA units, so they are quite common now. Steel tanks are used on the cascade refill stations at the departments and on the trucks, as weight doesn't matter in those cases.

As an ME student about to graduate, I'm quite familiar with plastic vs elastic deformation.

Your post on cave fills was good reading, thanks for that post. I'd still personally like to stick with the rated pressures myself, but maybe my views would change if I end up doing wreck or cave diving. Lots of energy is stored in those tanks though...I'm always a bit leery of pressure vessels. One time a number of years back, I picked up an air compressor for free. Tank was a bit rusted, so I wirebrushed the tank and was going to repaint it. I was running the compressor after the wirebrushing and I heard air leaking. Discovered the source, rust-caused pinhole leaks in the bottom of the tank. I quickly depressurised the tank and threw it away, considering myself lucky. Later I learned ASME rated tanks, in addition to being much thicker than standard consumer air compressor tanks, require removable plugs so the inside can be visually inspected, for that very reason. When I bought my shop air compressor I ended up buying one with an ASME rated tank, and boy that 20 gallon tank with walls about twice as thick as a standard consumer compressor is a PITA to move around! Weighs about 200 lbs with tank, motor, and compressor.

 

[MarkFlory]

is that a yes or a no?

You seem to believe that two wrongs make a right... guess what? They don't.

If they were selling them it was wrong, just as wrong as Sotis/AH selling them.

I don't know, I don't need to know, your guys are ones blaming him for designing them, making them, testing them, counterfeiting labels, etc
Maybe you should look into that and get all the facts before judging him. Just my opinion though.

 

[St John the Diver]

"One time a number of years back, I picked up an air compressor for free. Tank was a bit rusted, so I wirebrushed the tank and was going to repaint it. I was running the compressor after the wirebrushing and I heard air leaking. Discovered the source, rust-caused pinhole leaks in the bottom of the tank. I quickly depressurised the tank and threw it away, considering myself lucky"


^^^^ Funny... I've had two steel cylinders start leaking from the side during filling, both at around 2000 PSI. Local corrosion from laying on their side with pool-water in them. It's amazing how much it takes to get one to fail catastrophically.

And then there are the dozens of welding bottles I've seen rusted thru on wrecks that apparently just fizzed out their gas as they corroded thru. And same on the huge air bottles on the U-Boat wrecks.

Think about it. They rust thru, leak out, she never go bang.

 

[St John the Diver]

is that a yes or a no?

You seem to believe that two wrongs make a right... guess what? They don't.

If they were selling them it was wrong, just as wrong as Sotis/AH selling them.

The fast-buck ethics program isn't new to the dive industry. It's been a race to the bottom since internet sales took over from local sales. And the more "bling" you can advertise and sell the more traction you get on the forums and the more traction the more sales you get.

You're right. Two wrongs don't make a right. It just makes two wrongs.

 

[Wookie]

My SCUBA instructor would lay a bunch of tanks across the back of the van then layer a second layer on top, followed by the gear bags. Certainly not secured by any means.

Does the HMR also list handling of the tanks when moving them by hand? When I was a security officer, I saw the guys delivering compressed gas tanks handle them...well, they were fairly standard size tanks for commercial gas use, the ones about 4' tall. He'd take two tanks, stand them on the ground after taking them off the truck, then with the top of each in one hand he'd lean them both at an angle and roll the bottom along the ground to bring them from the truck to the tank storage area.

As evidenced by this thread, there is a tremendous amount of "lore" out there about proper handling of scuba tanks. If folks would realize that they aren't necessarily "scuba tanks" and are really "Hazardous Material Containers", they might realize that you can't just throw them stacked 2 high in the van and throw some dive bags on top of them. Any more than you can throw a WIPP BIN or High Level Waste storage cask or spent reactor fuel container in the back of the F-250 and take it from the reactor site to the burial ground.

Look in any safety catalog for proper gas handling equipment. Can you move cylinders by hand? Probably, and again, the chances of a disaster are relatively slim. The gas cylinders you remember your gas guy moving has valve caps installed and even if he tipped one over, the valve was unlikely to shear off. Scuba cylinders are another story. No valve protector, and they are typically picked up and carried. But proper handling involves hand trucks with chains etc. Most gas companies won't let you hand carry a cylinder over 70 lbs. That doesn't stop anyone, but there ya go.

 

[iain/hsm]

To honestly answer the question, yes. I knew the cylinders were not certified. I did not know that they had a counterfeit certification, only that they carried no valid certification at all. To be perfectly clear, I also fill Mk. 15 inconel and steel spheres for military clients, as well as others who may dive Mark 15's. I am perfectly aware that I was not in compliance with the law.

Frank

So as to be perfectly clear a whole world of difference between a TAVCO Mil spec Inconel 718 sphere and a cylinder out of China being certified QA out his back bedroom in a Sweedish housing estate with tanks imported from China

Again I am happy to discuss the design, QA indipendent testing and evaluation of both the TAVCO
and The Carlton Spheres we can discuss the material, welding procedure and QA qualifications all the way back to the mill that provides the metal.

But I repeat the Add Helium statement they made in writing:

"In the case of these tanks, we do not import them from China directly. We purchase them from a European distributor who has them made to their specifications for use in diving applications and for use with 100% o2, and does their own QA." (Peter Sotis Add Helium)

Again a world of difference between a TAVCO and this unverified, uncertified and possibly counterfeit junk.
Just a pity you cant see the difference. Iain

 

[cerich]

I don't know, I don't need to know, your guys are ones blaming him for designing them, making them, testing them, counterfeiting labels, etc
Maybe you should look into that and get all the facts before judging him. Just my opinion though.

Can you please find where I have stated that Convicted Felon Peter Sotis has designed the tanks, made the tanks, tested the tanks please? Because I haven't .

Now regards to counterfeiting labels, all I have posted is that it has been alleged per the complaint filed in the lawsuit.

What is it you want me to look into exactly? Because you can keep on claiming things that aren't true,so can you start to back them up? So far all I have seen is conflicting assertions that all boil down to "Peter is my friend and I am going to defend him at all costs and point the blame for his actions on others that do the same". Under that logic only people that do a crime that has never been committed before should face any consequences.

 

[MarkFlory]

Cerich,
the first thing you put in that response was something that happened 20 years ago and thatvdebt has been paid for in full . You haven't been fair and it's obvious you have no interest in being fair.
Not all of us have been as perfect as you I suppose. I got suck back into this tread like as dumb ass so I guess I deserve being treated like one. Good luck in your business.