Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

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We are really trying hard to keep this thread open, and we need your cooperation to stop attacking each other and deal with the facts of the case.

It is starting to look as if some people are making unnecessary repeated references to the Muslim elements in this case. If that continues, it may become apparent that the purpose is to appeal to anti-Muslim feelings for the purpose of feeding an emotional response. That is bigotry, and if we judge that the intention is to promote bigotry, those posts will be deleted in their entirety.
 
since it has come up. I skimmed the last 5 pages because it got rather hazy, but read the first 25 completely.
Anyone who has been on here for any length of time knows who I am, but for those that don't or are going to get their panties in a wad because I use my nickname, here is who I am.
Name: Tom Nelson
Profession: Textile Engineer-background in ballistic fabric design and composite structures

As was mentioned before, much of the issue with the composite bottles stems from water ingress into the composite structure and subsequently between the metal wall and the composite itself. This leads to all sorts of damage from the inside.
On top of that, if fibers like Kevlar are used, which they often are, the Kevlar can and will absorb water and salt. Water in and of itself will degrade the kevlar, but when combined with salt it will actually abrade the fibers on a polymer level which can lead to premature failure.
Added to this, the resins used are often subject to oxidation and degradation by sunlight, heat, and water. As mentioned, in Asia you may or may not know what resins are actually be used, and more importantly, if they are being applied appropriately. If applied inappropriately, voids will be formed as dry spots in the composite. This is not only a weak area where the structure will not withstand it's rated loading, but can also harbor liquid which leads to the failures mentioned above.

The fire extinguisher industry as well as the fire industry are able to use these bottles with minimal concern because their use and storage are very different than an underwater application. For us they are immersed for many hours, then out in the sun, and lather rinse repeat. The others stay dry where the void spaces may cause a failure at lower pressures than intended, but they aren't going to harbor liquid which accelerates material degradation.

You couldn't pay me to use these bottles in an UW application, even the ones rated for it because of these issues. Composites are very fickle things indeed, and wrapped cylinders that much more fickle. If you need weight savings, fine, figure it out some other way. If you need to travel, figure out how to make your rig work with cylinders available where you're going or dive OC, but don't risk the safety of others with your ignorance, indifference, or greed.
 
interesting and have virtually never seen DOT regs complied with with regards to vehicle markings when doing so.
I was told by a LDS that there is a certain number of tanks required before the placarding requirement kicks in, and they stayed below it.
 
I was told by a LDS that there is a certain number of tanks required before the placarding requirement kicks in, and they stayed below it.
under 1001lbs
so say 20 alm 80's
 
Probably, and again, the chances of a disaster are relatively slim. The gas cylinders you remember your gas guy moving has valve caps installed and even if he tipped one over, the valve was unlikely to shear off.
It does happen. I had a boss who had an ethylene dioxide cylinder lose its valve as he went to hook it up to the sterilization system in a surgical center. It went through the ceiling, he ran through the closed door and out of the building.
 
OK... obviously you didn't read the early post where I linked to the ITAR regs where re breathers were specifically addressed..whatever.

§ 734.3 Items subject to the EAR.
Link to an amendment published at 81 FR 35602, June 3, 2016.
(a) Except for items excluded in paragraph (b) of this section, the following items are subject to the EAR:

(1) All items in the United States, including in a U.S. Foreign Trade Zone or moving intransit through the United States from one foreign country to another;

(2) All U.S. origin items wherever located;

(3) Foreign-made commodities that incorporate controlled U.S.-origin commodities, foreign-made commodities that are ‘bundled’ with controlled U.S.-origin software, foreign-made software that is commingled with controlled U.S.-origin software, and foreign-made technology that is commingled with controlled U.S.-origin technology:

(i) In any quantity, as described in § 734.4(a) of this part; or

(ii) In quantities exceeding the de minimis levels, as described in § 734.4(c) or § 734.4(d) of this part;

(4) Certain foreign-made direct products of U.S. origin technology or software, as described in § 736.2(b)(3) of the EAR. The term “direct product” means the immediate product (including processes and services) produced directly by the use of technology or software;

Y?


Yup. The other cited attorney obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Buy up a box of Aimpoints retail at Cabelas and send them to Libya and you're going to be butt-hurt quickly. Ditto rebreathers. And 1000+ other things. As long as it's located in the USA it's under jurisdiction. And even if the material is outside of the USA an American citizen can still be sanctioned for carrying out brokering of US manufactured defense articles to proscribed parties. As clearly recited in what you posted.
 
Just a further FYI regarding claims of oxygen clean as regards the chinese tanks..

AH claims that they are Oxygen clean and also rated to 300 bar(4350 psi)

In fact per regulations a aluminum oxygen cylinder can't be filled beyond 3000psi


(b) Aluminum cylinders in oxygen service. Each aluminum cylinder filled with oxygen must meet all of the following conditions:

(1) Metallic portions of a valve that may come into contact with the oxygen in the cylinder must be constructed of brass or stainless steel.

(2) Except for UN cylinders, each cylinder opening must be configured with straight threads only.

(3) Each UN pressure receptacle must be cleaned in accordance with the requirements of ISO 11621 (IBR, see § 171.7 or this subchapter). Each DOT cylinder must be cleaned in accordance with the requirements of GSA Federal Specification RR-C-901D, paragraphs 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 (IBR, see § 171.7 of this subchapter). Cleaning agents equivalent to those specified in Federal Specification RR-C-901D may be used provided they do not react with oxygen. One cylinder selected at random from a group of 200 or fewer and cleaned at the same time must be testedfor oil contamination in accordance with Federal Specification RR-C-901D, paragraph 4.3.2, and meet the specified standard of cleanliness.

(4) The pressure in each cylinder may not exceed 3000 psig at 21 °C (70 °F)

49 CFR 173.302 - Filling of cylinders with nonliquefied (permanent) compressed gases.
 
since it has come up. I skimmed the last 5 pages because it got rather hazy, but read the first 25 completely.
Anyone who has been on here for any length of time knows who I am, but for those that don't or are going to get their panties in a wad because I use my nickname, here is who I am.
Name: Tom Nelson
Profession: Textile Engineer-background in ballistic fabric design and composite structures

As was mentioned before, much of the issue with the composite bottles stems from water ingress into the composite structure and subsequently between the metal wall and the composite itself. This leads to all sorts of damage from the inside.
On top of that, if fibers like Kevlar are used, which they often are, the Kevlar can and will absorb water and salt. Water in and of itself will degrade the kevlar, but when combined with salt it will actually abrade the fibers on a polymer level which can lead to premature failure.
Added to this, the resins used are often subject to oxidation and degradation by sunlight, heat, and water. As mentioned, in Asia you may or may not know what resins are actually be used, and more importantly, if they are being applied appropriately. If applied inappropriately, voids will be formed as dry spots in the composite. This is not only a weak area where the structure will not withstand it's rated loading, but can also harbor liquid which leads to the failures mentioned above.

The fire extinguisher industry as well as the fire industry are able to use these bottles with minimal concern because their use and storage are very different than an underwater application. For us they are immersed for many hours, then out in the sun, and lather rinse repeat. The others stay dry where the void spaces may cause a failure at lower pressures than intended, but they aren't going to harbor liquid which accelerates material degradation.

You couldn't pay me to use these bottles in an UW application, even the ones rated for it because of these issues. Composites are very fickle things indeed, and wrapped cylinders that much more fickle. If you need weight savings, fine, figure it out some other way. If you need to travel, figure out how to make your rig work with cylinders available where you're going or dive OC, but don't risk the safety of others with your ignorance, indifference, or greed.

What do you think about these tanks?
They have Worthington Cylinders name and logo backing them up. I would assume they are made in China also.

Single Cylinders - CARBONDIVE 300 - Carbon Scuba Tanks, Diving Equipment, Worthington

They carry a German safety certification fromTUV

Profile

I think as Technology advances these will just get better over time and we will see more and more of them being used in Scuba.
I here a lot of the gloom and doom here that I did when I started diving a CCR from the GUE types.
"You couldn't pay me to dive one of those, they are always trying to kill you"
"Scrubber channeling will kill you"
"Co2 will kill you"
"Electronics/solenoid will kill you"
"Did you know there is no regulation on the O2 cells?
"O2 cells are not designed to get wet"
"Your taking Sorb underwater? Your crazy"
The list is long and goes on and on and on yet here we are today and even GUE types are diving CCRs
 
What do you think about these tanks?
They have Worthington Cylinders name and logo backing them up. I would assume they are made in China also.

Single Cylinders - CARBONDIVE 300 - Carbon Scuba Tanks, Diving Equipment, Worthington

They carry a German safety certification fromTUV

Profile

I think as Technology advances these will just get better over time and we will see more and more of them being used in Scuba.
I here a lot of the gloom and doom here that I did when I started diving a CCR from the GUE types.
"You couldn't pay me to dive one of those, they are always trying to kill you"
"Scrubber channeling will kill you"
"Co2 will kill you"
"Electronics/solenoid will kill you"
"Did you know there is no regulation on the O2 cells?
"O2 cells are not designed to get wet"
"Your taking Sorb underwater? Your crazy"
The list is long and goes on and on and on yet here we are today and even GUE types are diving CCRs
You really believe that is the same as the Chinese no name tanks?

be well
 
These are the same guys that work or own Triple Canopy!!

1: You don't know what you're talking about regarding ITAR, and neither does your attorney. Read the regs yourself.

2: Youre barking up a tree. I don't know and don't care who Sotis's "partner" is or what's he's famous or not famous for. As far as I'm concerned he's (A): stupid for falling for handing over cash to a criminal and (B): making up for it by trying to get some of it back.

3: Nobody cares about ^^ whatever that means. I quit carrying a black rifle long before you were born and long before there was an A1 model. You kids don't remember Kennedy being shot. I do. You couldn't place a finger on a map to find the country where The Plain of Jars is. I can and I wear a bracelet with the name of my best friend who was last seen being dragged out of his parachute harness there and butchered by the Pathet Lao. Go read some history. My peers who went around beating their chests about "who was who" and "what merit badge they have" are now the pathetic old guys huddled around the mall in DC at the memorial. Get past it. Nobody... Cares.... What... Merit... Badge.... You... Wear.

Get a life and move on. Just don't go into the export business without hiring a better lawyer.
 
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