Air2 AND octo?

[ibj40]

Just an observation, most (all?) tech divers don't rely on an air2.

Now, I'm not implying that tech divers are the final word on all dives, in all situations. I'm not even implying that all tech divers are necessarily smart. However, on dives where the margin of error is slimmer (cave/deco dives), most opt not to have an air2.

Your clearly objective contribution to this discussion is appreciated. I agree with you that certain circumstances should dictate gear configuration.

I would like to take this opportunity to correct an oversight on my part; I'm on my third BCD. First one became a birthday gift for a dear friend dive guide on Cozumel, second one went into rental inventory at my Divemaster LDS due to excessive high chlorine swimming pool teaching sessions. All have been non-integrated though, still diving a weight belt.

 

[Bob DBF]

Just an observation, most (all?) tech divers don't rely on an air2.

Now, I'm not implying that tech divers are the final word on all dives, in all situations. I'm not even implying that all tech divers are necessarily smart. However, on dives where the margin of error is slimmer (cave/deco dives), most opt not to have an air2.

You seem to be saying that all divers should configure their rigs the same as tech divers, in a left handed manner.

As one who started with a double hose, then moved to a single hose with one second and dove that way untill the '80's when I started using a second second stage, I know from personal experience it's better to have an alternate than not.

For five years or more I used an Air 2 clone and had no issues with it, however I never had to use it except for practice and check operation. When I moved to a BPW, I had the alternate on a D-ring and later moved to a bungeed necklace for personal reasons. My buddy, however, moved his Air 2 to his new wing and has been diving like that for years now. We have no issue with either configuration when diving.

Now I believe that any diver should be able to dive the rig they choose. Certain dives dictate certain configurations, but most recreational dives have wide variety of choices of configuration. It's not necessary to badmouth a anothers choice of gear because it is not preferred or acceptable for ones own dive plan.

Dive and let dive.


Bob

 

[CuzzA]

Free flow. Free flow. Free flow.

Inadequate source of gas as it’s on your inflator/ deflator try grabbing while panicked and accidentally press inflate and rocket up and away you go.

Clunky.

To be serviced the same as a full reg.

Tie a an air 2 to a pull dump inflator /deflator and if you pull off your shoulder dump, your gas source is gone (shouldn’t use pull dump either)....

Etc

BOOM! There it is, folks. You're gonna DIE!!!

I've got two setups. Single solo rig where I may be buddy diving. Maybe I'll have a back mounted pony necklaced while spearfishing. Maybe I won't. The Air2 5th Gen had to meet EU standards. Forget the acronym, but that reg probably breathes better than half the seconds in use today.

My other kit is back mounted doubles with a 7ft. long hose setup, no Air2.

My point? Right tool for the job.

 

[BDSC]

After over 1,000 dives (and granted I have upgraded two of those initial purchases), I still dive the most contemporary version of the Air2. The other upgrade has been to stay current in dive computers.

I have never experienced a free flow, and never experienced a failure of the shoulder dump.

But Jim, you are talking about actual diving experiences in the water. Don't confuse that with "internet diving".

Internet diving is based on the theory that whatever can go wrong will go wrong. You see it all the time right here on SB and what better example than the AIR2. A person will sit in front of the computer, strap on their tank (with an AIR2), don their mask and fins, and off they go. What happens? You guessed it. When they reach depth all hell breaks loose. That seemingly benign AIR2 becomes a death trap. It can go into a free flow free flow free flow that quickly empties all your gas. Now you can't breathe and your BC doesn't work. Or perhaps your buddy goes OOA and when he swims over, you both panic because no one knows how to properly use the AIR2, press the inflator button, and you take a ride on space mountain. Not to mention the fact that the AIR2 is so damn big it cause drag and now you go through your gas so much quicker. Of course all the while you are diving you really don't enjoy yourself because all you can think of is having to spend the money to get the damned thing serviced once a year.

But finally that day comes where you are actually standing on the dock or at the back of the boat ready to do real world diving. Off you go and magically, as if the Gods are smiling down on you, all the evils of the AIR2 disappear. There's no free flow, you don't really notice the difference in the size of the AIR2 vs a standard inflator, maybe your buddy runs low on air and you place the AIR2 in your mouth and hand your buddy your primary and are able to surface safely, your bc doesn't fall apart in the process, and you have the confidence in your AIR2 because you have it serviced just like you would any regulator. All is well, life is good, and you live to dive another day.

I was certified in 91, a few years after you, and have well over 1000 dives. Probably all but 10 were on my own rig with an AIR2. Never once in over 1000 dives and 27 years of diving have I had a single problem with my AIR2. Not one. I typically will switch from my primary to my AIR2 and breathe it for a minute or two every 4th or 5th dive. When my wife got certified, we bought her a SP BC and she also has an AIR2. Early on we practiced several times OOA situations where we would each pretend to run OOA, donate our primary while using the AIR2 ourselves, and surfacing. Never a problem. But who knows, maybe the Force was strong with us that day.

My advice to anyone thinking about getting an AIR2 for their set-up is do it. Just make sure you understand how it operates, like you would with any piece of gear, and make sure your buddy knows that if he/she needs air from you, you will hand them your primary and you will go to your AIR2. It's proven over the years to be a safe and reliable piece of scuba gear.

But if you are going to do some "internet diving".........run brother......run as fast as you can from the evil AIR2!

 

[CuzzA]

But Jim, you are talking about actual diving experiences in the water. Don't confuse that with "internet diving".

Internet diving is based on the theory that whatever can go wrong will go wrong. You see it all the time right here on SB and what better example than the AIR2. A person will sit in front of the computer, strap on their tank (with an AIR2), don their mask and fins, and off they go. What happens? You guessed it. When they reach depth all hell breaks loose. That seemingly benign AIR2 becomes a death trap. It can go into a free flow free flow free flow that quickly empties all your gas. Now you can't breathe and your BC doesn't work. Or perhaps your buddy goes OOA and when he swims over, you both panic because no one knows how to properly use the AIR2, press the inflator button, and you take a ride on space mountain. Not to mention the fact that the AIR2 is so damn big it cause drag and now you go through your gas so much quicker. Of course all the while you are diving you really don't enjoy yourself because all you can think of is having to spend the money to get the damned thing serviced once a year.

But finally that day comes where you are actually standing on the dock or at the back of the boat ready to do real world diving. Off you go and magically, as if the Gods are smiling down on you, all the evils of the AIR2 disappear. There's no free flow, you don't really notice the difference in the size of the AIR2 vs a standard inflator, maybe your buddy runs low on air and you place the AIR2 in your mouth and hand your buddy your primary and are able to surface safely, your bc doesn't fall apart in the process, and you have the confidence in your AIR2 because you have it serviced just like you would any regulator. All is well, life is good, and you live to dive another day.

I was certified in 91, a few years after you, and have well over 1000 dives. Probably all but 10 were on my own rig with an AIR2. Never once in over 1000 dives and 27 years of diving have I had a single problem with my AIR2. Not one. I typically will switch from my primary to my AIR2 and breathe it for a minute or two every 4th or 5th dive. When my wife got certified, we bought her a SP BC and she also has an AIR2. Early on we practiced several times OOA situations where we would each pretend to run OOA, donate our primary while using the AIR2 ourselves, and surfacing. Never a problem. But who knows, maybe the Force was strong with us that day.

My advice to anyone thinking about getting an AIR2 for their set-up is do it. Just make sure you understand how it operates, like you would with any piece of gear, and make sure your buddy knows that if he/she needs air from you, you will hand them your primary and you will go to your AIR2. It's proven over the years to be a safe and reliable piece of scuba gear.

But if you are going to do some "internet diving".........run brother......run as fast as you can from the evil AIR2!

What's pretty cool about today's rec rigs (and since Shearwater introduced AI on their computer, so no one will die from AI), you can have a rig with literally only two hoses. Talk about streamlining.

 

[BDSC]

What's pretty cool about today's rec rigs (and since Shearwater introduced AI on their computer, so no one will die from AI), you can have a rig with literally only two hoses. Talk about streamlining.

I know. Right now I have a AI console and it works great but recently had a buddy let me borrow a wrist AI computer on a trip to Belize. It was nice having that. I'm thinking before I go to the Solomons next year I'll have a wrist computer. Assuming I don't drown from internet diving.

 

[RyanT]

You seem to be saying that all divers should configure their rigs the same as tech divers, in a left handed manner.

As one who started with a double hose, then moved to a single hose with one second and dove that way untill the '80's when I started using a second second stage, I know from personal experience it's better to have an alternate than not

I was not saying that all divers should configure like tech divers, not at all. I agree with your second point; it is is better to have an alternative than not. The point I was making was that the air2 is not the best choice of an alternative.

It's not necessary to badmouth a anothers choice of gear because it is not preferred or acceptable for ones own dive plan.

I wasn't "bad mouthing" it. It is simply not the best tool for the job. Sure, it's nice and streamlined and indeed better than nothing, but in practice, it sucks. I have used one in an actual OOG situation. It worked, and all turned out fine, but it sure made the ascent and safety stop much more of a pain than it needed to be. So I'm making this observation based on actual experience rather than something I heard or "what the cool kids are doing."

 

[CuzzA]

Hmmm, maybe you didn't do it right if it was so hard? What made the air share so challenging for you?

 

[RyanT]

Diving in a team of three, my buddy had an uncontrolled free flow. I donated my long hose and we shut her gas down. She was very comfortable doing her ascent on my long hose. By having the air2 (actually atomic's version) on my inflator hose, it meant 1) having to take it out of my mouth to vent and 2) my head was stuck looking either straight forward or to the left. The short length of the inflator hose restricts your ability to look to the right. In order to watch where all of my team members were, I had to helicopter around occasionally to keep everyone in view and of course in doing so, had to coordinate with my buddy for those movements. None of those things were a big deal, but a simple octopus bungeed under my chin would have allowed me full range of head motion and would just been simpler. Sure, I could get a longer inflator hose, but then that begins to encroach on some of the streamlining that the air2 is aiming for. For me, a bungeed hose under you chin still feels pretty streamlined.

 

[EireDiver606]

In what universe is a diver going to grab his or her BCD mounted regulator, proceed to accidentally press the inflate button and sit there holding it depressed and continuing to fill the BCD while "rocketing to the surface" while doing nothing to remedy the situation?. If the diver is that incompetent then there's a lot more ways to screw up a dive.



Using the BCD pull dump is a convenient way to avoid having to raise the BCD vent hose higher than the BCD and assume a left shoulder up position. I use it all the time, I can't recall the last time I went through the whole "twist my body so my left shoulder is the highest point on my body and hold the vent hose higher than the BCD" in order to vent gas. To use a pull dump, as recommended by the BCD manufacturer, the diver can be almost horizontal, and just needs to gently tug downwards on the corrugated BCD hose to allow the gas to escape from the BCD shoulder vent. The odds of the diver completely pulling the entire inflator hose off the BCD are so remote as to be nonexistant and even "if" it should occur then the dive can aborted, just like it would be with any other equipment failure.

Pull dump some are notorious for detaching in the water, emptying your wing completely.

Now I see how you dive....