Air integrated or no?

[Joneill]

Wow, two Shearwaters and two transmitters -- didn't quite know who I was dealing with . . . just getting chills.

Who really cares?

Let’s see: you dismiss those of us who have had SPG issues as it being the result of us having bought crap gear. I was just pointing out that I don’t cut corners/buy cheap gear - sorry if that concept offends you in some weird way???

In response to your rather snide question, I have had some great analogue Scubapro gauges that have stood the test of time, at well over thirty-plus years without issue; so too a few Poseidon and Suunto gauges (made in Finland, Finland, Finland) of similar ages and some even older.




"[H]ow is it better?" -- well, none of those gauges (and I have accrued quite a bit of gear over the years) have ever "frozen" on me, fallen apart, or have somehow lost accuracy, when compared to digital counterparts -- so too, any of my analogue depth gauges. Even those button gauges on my pony bottles, the complaint of so many, have lasted years.

On the other hand, I have had several Oceanic Datamax Pros (among the first AI computers -- a real brick) crap out in the early 1990s, as they were highly prone to flooding; two Suunto Cobras with faulty depth sensors which would haphazardly also enter some violation mode on a shallow first dive, that no one seemed able to explain, least of all Suunto-Oy; then there's my niece's spanking new Shearwater which regularly loses twenty percent of its charge over a couple of days -- and she's already on her second or, maybe, third battery by now -- we just gave her a Poseidon Cirrus double console for Christmas, sans battery.

I just bank on simple-stupid redundancy and have yet to be disappointed -- trust but verify.

I did, however, once lose an SPG and a Jetstream second stage to a lifted RAV4, driven by an sub-idiot on his phone.

Other than that, just hoses and spools were the only things replaced over time; but that was to be expected.

Can't be just the luck of the draw or an outlier -- not that lucky . . .

Nothing snide about my question - it was a valid inquiry but, as expected, you did not actually explain what was technically better about your “Mercedes” SPG’s vs the ones that the rest of us use (the best I can tell is that the VAST majority of SPG’s are made at the same manufacturer in Italy - in fact, it’s hard to find one that does not say “Made in Italy”).

Use your SPG’s as you prefer, but stop trying to present AI tech as unreliable - it’s 2022; not 1990 and tech has advanced far beyond your problematic Datamax Pro’s. Nothing is perfect - analog or electronic - which is why I believe in and use redundancy!

WRT Shearwater - they have definitely had issues with the battery life on some Terics. In fact, I’ve had mine serviced 3 times - however, none of these issues were true “failures” that would have cost me (or anyone) dives. It just means that one might need to recharge it every 1-2 days. A flaw vs design intent for sure - but not really a big deal for an otherwise awesome computer. I now have 3 dive trips/76 dives on the latest battery and charge is holding high over storage time with this one.

Finally - I love how you suggest that my lack of issues with transmitters is an outlier but your lack of issues with SPG’s is not an outlier - nice application of double standards to suit your messaging!

 

[Joneill]

Ah, but I carry electronics as well and am not solely dependent upon an SPG -- just preaching the gospel of redundancy.

But redundancy does not have to be analog - I use digital redundancy. Use what works for you!

I don't think that I've aborted a dive in the twenty-first century, due to anything crapping out; wasn't ever required of me . . .

Great - I’ve also never had to cancel or abort a dive due to any of my electronics crapping out.

 

[bradlw]

......
Anyone claiming they've never had an SPG fail is full of BS and not to be trusted.

this comment caught my eye..... I know what you mean (I think)... but I've gotta say I don't recall a failure of any of my SPG's and I can't recall a single failure on anyone in any of the dive groups or boat loads of people on any of the dives I've been on. Maybe some happened that I wasn't aware of
or maybe many of those gauges were not reporting to NIST traceable standards (granted most probably were not, so is that a failure in your example?)
but what I can recall is two events for sure, but I think there were more computers that flooded while on a dive (granted this was a long time ago and maybe they've improved in that regard too!)

and pointing to the reliability for wireless in days gone by.... I remember several times folks on the boat setting up their gear and basically everyone is ready to jump but the guy with the fancy rig saying "wait a sec", having to cycle his power or some such thing or otherwise wait a moment for the pressure to display.

We are talking about getting a tank pressure reading here. Nothing more nothing less. People make it sound like the world is ending.

This points to my main motivation for asking my question in this thread. Is there really any useful or interesting use for the data that I'm not thinking of?
and I think the answer seems to be that only a more granular knowledge of your RMV/SAC. Doesn't look like the computers today are doing anything more with the data

and in my opinion...to bolster your comment with my opinion
an analog SPG will tell your pressure within say about 50psig (or maybe 25psig) if you look close...certainly at quick glance within 100psi or so...and I recon for most divers you don't really need any more precision that that while on a dive!



I guess my takeaway so far is.... there's probably not a compelling reason for me to get AI but if I came across a deal I probably would consider it.
No need to be too concerned about reliability....

 

[Boarderguy]

Use your SPG’s as you prefer, but stop trying to present AI tech as unreliable - it’s 2022; not 1990 and tech has advanced far beyond your problematic Datamax Pro’s. Nothing is perfect - analog or electronic - which is why I believe in and use redundancy!

It's 2023... sorry, had to.

 

[Joneill]

It's 2023... sorry, had to.

Thanks - I often make that mistake in January !

 

[Bigbella]

Nothing snide about my question - it was a valid inquiry but, as expected, you did not actually explain what was technically better about your “Mercedes” SPG’s vs the ones that the rest of us use (the best I can tell is that the VAST majority of SPG’s are made at the same manufacturer in Italy - in fact, it’s hard to find one that does not say “Made in Italy”).

What was "technically better" -- seriously -- after all those sundry tales of SPGs "freezing" and falling apart?

That they all f**king lasted decades -- that they're still not consigned to an Hoboken trash heap -- and all work to this day -- and we beat the hell out of them!

My SPGs -- several Suunto (made in Finland); several Poseidon and Scubapro (yes, those probably part of that VAST Italian SPG obsolescenza programmata conspiracy) -- had all been used heavily (including the two in the photo), for industrial use, over thousands of dives, for an excess of thirty years, without fail.

The proof is in the pudding . . .

 

[Joneill]

What was "technically better" -- seriously -- after all those sundry tales of SPGs "freezing" and falling apart?

That they all f**king lasted decades -- that they're still not consigned to an Hoboken trash heap -- and all work to this day -- and we beat the hell out of them!

My SPGs -- several Suunto (made in Finland); several Poseidon and Scubapro (yes, those probably part of that VAST Italian SPG obsolescenza programmata conspiracy) -- had all been used heavily (including the two in the photo), for industrial use, over thousands of dives, for an excess of thirty years, without fail.

The proof is in the pudding . . .

Yes - seriously: You were the one who was claiming we had crap SPG’s and you had “Mercedes” SPG’s - but not surprised that you have no answer as to why you believe your SPG’s were better and infallible but I’m done troll feeding.

 

[scubadada]

What was "technically better" -- seriously -- after all those sundry tales of SPGs "freezing" and falling apart?

That they all f**king lasted decades -- that they're still not consigned to an Hoboken trash heap -- and all work to this day -- and we beat the hell out of them!

My SPGs -- several Suunto (made in Finland); several Poseidon and Scubapro (yes, those probably part of that VAST Italian SPG obsolescenza programmata conspiracy) -- had all been used heavily (including the two in the photo), for industrial use, over thousands of dives, for an excess of thirty years, without fail.

The proof is in the pudding . . .

My 1972 Italian Scubapro SPG still works fine, but only goes to 3500 psi and fits an old 3/8" HP port. This worked fine with my steel 72s and MK5/109.

 

[formernuke]

I like AI. I still use a backup spg though.

Most computers that have AI that I see are trimix as well. Just don't use that feature. For deco though you still need a deco computer.

Avoid suunto.

 

[Bigbella]

Avoid suunto.

Oddly enough, we had been outliers in terms of Suunto problems, until that issue with faulty depth sensors came along, some years back -- though I still have couple of fully-functional (non-AI) Solutions from 1992-3 and plenty of analogue gauges.

Suunto-Oy (pre-Huish) treated us fairly well -- actual got live people on the phone -- and replaced a handful of Cobras 2s with later models; and, to their credit or our luck, have been hanging in there for several years -- but I don't leave home without an SPG . . .