Air Fill Argument

[diver 85]

I don't understand this air fill argument. The main reason people will tell you to shop at an LDS is because of service. The number one thing they present to use is air fills, hell I can go to a local sporting goods store to get a fill for a few bucks. I'm sorry, but I can't justify spending hundreds sometimes thousands more for the same gear, so I can get air fills.

Now, I know several will say they offer other services like trying the gear etc.. If you buy gear from scuba toys or Leisure Pro and don't like it send it back. I just don't see what real benefit an LDS can offer.

I do appreciate someone starting up their dream job, opening a shop and all. However, it is not my fault if they go under due to a bad business model i.e. overpriced gear

I say we let schools i.e. colleges teach people to dive and let students buy their gear online. When you need an air fill go to the local sporting goods store. If people want to buy their gear for over inflated prices to support their dive shop buddies, then I am all for it. However, don't bash others who want to save their hard earned cash for other things, in particular tropical trips

2 problems I would have with your solutions........

(1)...I live about 80 miles from the nearest college that would/could(& presently does) teach an OW etc class...

(2) Our local sporting goods store(Walmart) doesn't have a compressor, to my knowledge.........lol.......

As you can see, a one horse town would be hard pressed..........

 

[Brandon]

We don't have an LDS here... the nearest one is 800 miles and a $1,000 plane ticket away.

There's about 2 dozen divers here, and we dive a lot. We buy a lot of our gear online, we obtain training locally, we ship gear out to get serviced, and we make our own travel arrangements for trips. We basically do everything that the doom and gloom crowd says will bring about the scuba apocalypse.

Sometimes... we even wear our masks on our forehead.

You don't need an LDS. If you want to dive bad enough you'll figure out the details.

-Brandon.

 

[J.R.]

Awesome! I'll load the speargun and get a cross painted on my drysuit.

Death to the infidels!

-B

Ah, Brother Brandon... go easy on the unconverted... harpoonin' em' is bad for the ecology... rather, I say unto... lead them gently with wise words and patience... be a good dive buddy... share your Nitrox... diss not the noob or the poor of wallet... ummm... got some other stuff... but can't think of it right now.

... and, if that don't work... well... yea', there's always the speargun.

Oh... and it ain't a 'cross'... that's an "X"... as in "X marks the spot"... don't want to go infringin' on somebody else's copyright...

Keep the faith and good divin'....

 

[Richesb]

You all seem to have answers to problems while sitting in your houses. Real life is a little different. You've all become so knowledgeable - how? I'm sure many/most through picking the brain of the LDS.
People come down here to dive. There are no "sporting goods stores". Fire stations get their air fills from LDS.
When you are here on your 1 week vacation and your equiptment fails/breaks and need it fixed overnight - what are you going to do?
The internet ain't going to fix it. Sporting goods store 100 miles away ain't going to fill your tanks.
Face it - in real life the LDS has place

 

[Brandon]

You all seem to have answers to problems while sitting in your houses. Real life is a little different. You've all become so knowledgeable - how? I'm sure many/most through picking the brain of the LDS.
People come down here to dive. There are no "sporting goods stores". Fire stations get their air fills from LDS.
When you are here on your 1 week vacation and your equiptment fails/breaks and need it fixed overnight - what are you going to do?
The internet ain't going to fix it. Sporting goods store 100 miles away ain't going to fill your tanks.
Face it - in real life the LDS has place

Ummm.... well, let's see.

Knowledge? There's these paper things called books. Lots of good ones on diving.

Fire stations get their air fills from dive shops? That's hilarious. What do they do when they have multiple attack teams working a structure fire then - send people back to the dive shop to have the SCBA tanks filled? Every fire hall I've ever been in has a compressor - many of them are nicer than compressors I've seen in dive shops. Many departments even have portable cascade systems - either mounted in an engine or on a trailer.

If I'm on vacation and my equipment fails, and I can't fix it myself - I'll visit a local shop. Experience tells me they aren't likely to have parts for my regulator, so I travel with my own rebuild kits. If they try to rape me on the repair cost, I'll rent a reg. It isn't the end of the world.

Diving in the Keys and I need air? I'll visit the local shop. Duh.

You're right, the LDS does have a place... no one is claiming they don't.

-Brandon.

 

[mnj1233]

Nice manifesto... ... and... ????



WHAT!!! You stiffling my freedom of speach???

As long as those who feel a need to preach the glories of the people's internet over the repressive imperalistic mom & pop LDS, I shall, if for no other reason than because its fun... stand to the defense of the small dive shop operator attempting to scratch out a meger living amidst the evil empire of the mystical marketplace known as 'the internet'...

I say let each make his own bed as is to his liking (give me an 'amen'...) but not wave his bed sheets as a banner triumphant... (howz'about another 'amen'???)...

I say to everything there is a season... and while the LDS may be more expensive and limited in the scope of its merchandising... IT IS JUST DOWN THE STREET brothers and sisters and woe be it unto him who tries to sit down and network with the mysterious faces and unknown qualities of the internet merchant... Yea... I say unto you... try to get an air fill over the internet... try to have somebody on the internet 'checkout' yer rig to assist you in figgurin' out why ya' got this or that discomboobulation happenin' in your divin' universe... (give me a "Thank you Jaques Cousteau...")

I say unto you... ummm.... was there a question associated with this thread???

Support em' all... BUY till' your credid card smokes...

Here! Here!

 

[mnj1233]

One more thought, I wouldnt seek free advise and help from my LDS any more than I would expect free medical care from a doctor friend or free legal advise from an attorney buddy. Everyone is trying to make a living and just because something is your recreation does mean it should be free.
Oh by the way anyone own a backhoe in my area Ive got a big hole I need to dig and load up your bobcat while your at it so you can smooth out the mess you made in my yard free of charge. Thanks.
Remember if you ever need a hand well Im kinda busy these days.

 

[ReefHound]

I have been in the eCommerce world for 14 years. Cost of operation is not a statement of profitability or margin. Yes eCommerce models have a great physical cost of doing business, but target market is much larger and thus sales volume has the potential of being larger. The big question that most companies will not release is margin; you move more inventory in a successful eCommerce model than a brick and motor, so your margins can be lower and yet still be more profitable at a higher operational cost. An LDS without high volumes can not maintain the same margins as any business model with high volumes. So this effort to force them to lower prices through complaining is not going to work. You will either shop at your LDS or not; personal choice. Hopefully this SB trend will get old and we can get back to some diving discussions. (General observation and not directed to a single post or thread.)

But the claim often made by LDS advocates is that online stores have lower *costs*.

And the LDS attempts to force higher prices on divers through scare tactics and appeals for "loyalty" are not going to work. They will either adapt or go out of business. Their personal choice.

The reason this topic comes up so frequently and is so popular is that places like SB are the only place for divers to get the other side of the story. The LDS gets to the new diver first (OW class) and spends virtually every minute indoctrinating them into the LDS philosophy. New divers aren't told the pros and cons, they are told only of the evils of the internet. They leave OW thinking if they get a reg online it will be a rusty Chinese counterfeit that cannot be serviced and will disintegrate underwater and kill them. It's only when those divers join independent dive clubs on online forums that they start to get the full picture.

 

[J.R.]

There are no "sporting goods stores". ... Face it - in real life the LDS has place

Humor mode = ON:

Dive Shops ain't "sportin' goods stores??? Depends on yer' sport... being one of the 'one week visitors' I'd say that ya'll have some of the finest "sportin' goods stores" I've ever had the privledge of visitin'... friendly too.

Humor mode = SORTA' ON:

Yep... everything fillis it's niche in the scuba ecological system... and the LDS has always seemed, at least to me, like the 'anchor store' in a mall... it isn't necessarily "THE" answer... but it's definately one of the critical elements in the equation...

Humor mode = KINDA' ON:

I think one thing that tends to get lost a bit in on-line conversations (other than the fact that it's kinda' hard to read facial expressions and tonal values when all ya' got are semi-sincere smilies to work with) is the awareness that everybodies view of reality is highly dependant on where they are... a great example is the concept of where fire departments get their air... in Alaska... Brandon is probably right on... but on Marathon Key... well... there's lots of them LDSs down there... and I wouldn't argue with Richesb if he sez' they fill em at the LDS...

... here in the ol' midwest I think they use bicycle pumps... not sure...

It's kinda' like the old story about the blind men and the elephant... each describes the elephant. Each guy developes a metaphore depending on the elephant part he's got hold of... none of them are totally wrong... but none are totally right... and none of them have the "big picture"...

 

[ReefHound]

People come down here to dive. There are no "sporting goods stores". Fire stations get their air fills from LDS.
When you are here on your 1 week vacation and your equiptment fails/breaks and need it fixed overnight - what are you going to do?
The internet ain't going to fix it. Sporting goods store 100 miles away ain't going to fill your tanks.

This is pretty hilarious since the Keys are filled with dive shop superstores of the type most people can only dream of. In fact, some of your dive shops are the very online retailers mentioned. When I visit the Keys I always hit the dive stores looking for deals.

As for equipment failure, the best solution for that is redundancy. With all the money saved buying online, I can do that.