Air Fill Argument

[Tigerman]

Before then, it might be more wise to think why there are so many customers who want to bash their own LDS? That is a proper approach that most business schools teach.

Because a lot of customers;
1) Think they know what they want, but they dont really have a clue
2) A lot of people look blindly on prices and have no idea of the costs of running a LDS vs running a webshop
3) Some people can simply never be made happy, neither by a LDS or a webshop

(Yeah, Ive worked in retail stores, however not scuba related, and Ive seen a lot of the first category)

 

[dschulte]

If you're local sporting good store doesn't fill tanks you can always go with EtherFill: http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/etherfill.shtml

I have ordered two! Got to have the DIR backup.
:monkeydan

 

[dschulte]

...Same goes for the fire department. Air that's just fine for the FD when used at 1 ATA may or may not be OK at 3 or 4 ATA...
Terry

Fire departments must maintain grade E air ratings, the same as scuba diving compressors. There is not difference between the NFPA guidelines for air quality and CGA standards for breathing air. Now there is a higher level for Nitrox systems, they work under the ANDI standard which is considerably cleaner than NFPA or CGA. A good resource for air information is Vooodoo Gas website.

Fire department air supplies are as clean as the LDS, non-Nitrox, fill stations.
:monkeydan

 

[ekewaka]

Before then, it might be more wise to think why there are so many customers who want to bash their own LDS? That is a proper approach that most business schools teach.

I only bash LDSs who deserve to be bashed. In this case, I am bashing LSDs who bash customers who buy stuff online. In my area, there are some good LDSs, and they get a lot of my money, but I don't think I have any obligation to buy anything from anyone. It is my money and I will spend it where I want. I don't need the LDS, and I don't owe them anything.

 

[ReefHound]

We in the fire service use a different thread on our SCBA tanks. You can get an adapter, but the usual issue is that the majority of fill stations max out at 2661psi.

Good reason to get LP steel tanks.

I have not seen a sporting goods store with scuba fill capabilities

Gander Mountain is one.

I have been in the technology field since 1992 and have seen hundreds of Internet companies fold up overnight. Goodbye to existing orders, warranty support and the deals.

And in all that time, Leisure Pro has stood strong. Name me a major online scuba dealer that has folded up. Just one.

On the other hand, we have seen 5 LDS close in my city just in the last 2 years. If that is your concern, that's an excellent reason for most to avoid a traditional LDS.

You also have to be careful of factory refurbished equipment, overseas supplied equipment and closeouts specials.

What scuba manufacturers are refurbishing equipment and who are they selling it to if they deny selling to unauthorized dealers? What's wrong with overseas? Some of the best equipment in the world is manufactured overseas. What's wrong with closeouts?

I will personally still support the LDS. They provide face-to-face knowledge, service, trip coordination, training and friendship. I do not pay the exaggerated hundreds or thousands of dollars extra at the LDS. Most times tax is the only extra I pay over the Internet

And like I said before, you're obviously in the minority else there wouldn't be an online/LDS issue at all.

I live in Georgia so shopping at Divers Supply in Macon is a reasonable drive. They have the largest Internet dive business in the world and yet still have better deals in their brick-and-motor locations than via their website. Their primary focus is the local diving community, not the web. I have been to 5 of their 7 locations and it is the same at each; to get the local community diving.

Exactly. Proves the point that a LDS doesn't have to be a high margin low-volume business model. Disproves the point often claimed by LDS proponents that the online retailers have lower overhead and are not knowledgable.

Diving is an expensive hobby, but if the LDS goes away what do you think is going to happen to those Internet prices?

The industry will consolidate into the Divers Supply model, prices will be lower for all, and the local community will be diving just like the 5 or 7 locations you have seen.

 

[Stu S.]

Well divers, me and my neighbor Net Doc are in the same boat. Our local dive store with air and nitrox closed in January. The next closest one closed last November. I called another one about a half hour further away in Orlando, and they no longer had air, as they were closing. Our new sporting goods store, Gander Mountain, has air (no nitrox) and only when the right guys are in. Getting fills now involves about 50 more miles of driving than it used too.

I've bought gear locally, and on-line. I always figured there would be enough people who wanted to pay the dive shop prices to keep the compressors operating. I figured wrong. Maybe they would have folded if we gave them more business, anyway.

 

[Tigerman]

Exactly. Proves the point that a LDS doesn't have to be a high margin low-volume business model. Disproves the point often claimed by LDS proponents that the online retailers have lower overhead and are not knowledgable.

An online store DOES have lower costs than a retail store, unless theire stupid. Ive worked with both retial and websales and I can assure you the profit per sale from a webshop is far better than in a retail store. If you run BOTH a retail store AND a webshop to go with it however, you dont need as much profit on the retail sales and you can push the prices further down than would be viable if you didnt run web sales as well as store sales..
Think of it.. What do you think you need to run a webshop?
You need a shack to stockpile items and you need to be able to operate a computer, thats more or less it..
If I wanted to I could set up a webshop from my appartement, using my already existing computer and internet connection... And you wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of finding out that my "storage" actually was my garage or who my suppliers where..

 

[ReefHound]

Well divers, me and my neighbor Net Doc are in the same boat. Our local dive store with air and nitrox closed in January. The next closest one closed last November. I called another one about a half hour further away in Orlando, and they no longer had air, as they were closing. Our new sporting goods store, Gander Mountain, has air (no nitrox) and only when the right guys are in. Getting fills now involves about 50 more miles of driving than it used too.

I've bought gear locally, and on-line. I always figured there would be enough people who wanted to pay the dive shop prices to keep the compressors operating. I figured wrong. Maybe they would have folded if we gave them more business, anyway.

Or maybe they never would have folded at all if they had dropped their prices to competitive levels or adjusted their business model appropriately.

BTW, our Gander has nitrox. Are you sure it's not just a temporary thing? And the availability should get better as more of their people get up to speed.

 

[aowdan]

college classes for diving are great. that's what i do (i know this is a little late for this thread) you actually get more education than an LDS. i could do my viz's and fills at school, but i go to my lds for fills

dano

 

[ReefHound]

An online store DOES have lower costs than a retail store, unless theire stupid. Ive worked with both retial and websales and I can assure you the profit per sale from a webshop is far better than in a retail store. If you run BOTH a retail store AND a webshop to go with it however, you dont need as much profit on the retail sales and you can push the prices further down than would be viable if you didnt run web sales as well as store sales..

That's just it, nearly all the major online retailers operate BOTH a retail store AND a web store, thus the pro-LDS criticism that the online retailers have less overhead is pure baloney.

Think of it.. What do you think you need to run a webshop?

If I wanted to I could set up a webshop from my appartement, using my already existing computer and internet connection...

Yawn, another newb that mistakes running a major e-commerce enterprise with hosting a personal homepage...

Phil?