Air Fill Argument

[Splitlip]

Get a bigger house. It sounds like your garage is your living room....

The argument here is that the customer doesn't want to pay more because of an air refill threaten.

You get what you paid for already.. Your LDS business practice work for you. Great...

But, how about other customers who have to pay an air fill even after spending the premium price on the gear?

You have the living room part correct. We have no basements here and boys nights don't go over well in the house.

And perhaps I am biased. The folks in our shops in addition to being service providers are neighbors, soccer moms, dive buddies and often mentors. I think they make out on the initial "certification" purchases with the regulars. After that, I really don't know of any shop regular who pays "retail".
Now somebody comes in from, say West Lafayette because his regulator was lost by the airline, he is probably paying more than I. I suspect however, he will be glad there is a capable shop with techs and the required inventory to save his vacation. He can thank a local regular patron for that.

 

[scscubadiver1]

You probably have a fire department though...

why would I give just anybody a air fill from my Fire Dept knowing how sue crazy people are today and jeopardize my job and get the dept sued in the process.:no We are here for life safety not air fills.:light: and yes its CGA grade E tested ever quarter.

 

[spectrum]

Re, the OP.....

Regarding fit of gear purchased online:
1. You have been lucky
2. You have a high tolerance for mail order roulette
3. You have low expectation for the fit and/or function of your gear

In some cases being able to try and test is priceless.

Air fills at a sporting goods store...... That simply is not available is a widespread manner. Make sure that the paint ball shop is processing breathing grade air. If applicable will it be nitrox grade and can they supply a mix?

Do I write the LDS a blank check? Heck no, they need to be reaosnably competitive. At the same time I recognize that they bring some unique value to the deal and that is worthy of compensation.

Pete

 

[Tigerman]

I don't understand this air fill argument. The main reason people will tell you to shop at an LDS is because of service. The number one thing they present to use is air fills, hell I can go to a local sporting goods store to get a fill for a few bucks. I'm sorry, but I can't justify spending hundreds sometimes thousands more for the same gear, so I can get air fills.

Now, I know several will say they offer other services like trying the gear etc.. If you buy gear from scuba toys or Leisure Pro and don't like it send it back. I just don't see what real benefit an LDS can offer.

I do appreciate someone starting up their dream job, opening a shop and all. However, it is not my fault if they go under due to a bad business model i.e. overpriced gear

I say we let schools i.e. colleges teach people to dive and let students buy their gear online. When you need an air fill go to the local sporting goods store. If people want to buy their gear for over inflated prices to support their dive shop buddies, then I am all for it. However, don't bash others who want to save their hard earned cash for other things, in particular tropical trips

Altho i see wher youre coming from, running a shop isnt quite as simple as "if you dont get things sold its too expencive"..
Shops have expences and they have suppliers to pay for the goods they want to sell. The retail price is dictated by the cost to buy the items from the supplier, the cost to pay the people who work there, rent, electric bills, and so on, and so on..
Sure, you might find the price too expencive and shop online instead, which I can fully understand, but calling the prices you have to charge a bad buisness model is far off base.. (yeah, some people put in far too much profit too, but you generalized, so I did the same)

And yeah, Ill shop where I get the item I want at the most reasonable price too, but that dont mean I have to call the shop who has more expences than the webshops do bad buisnesspeople..

 

[ekewaka]

LDS is not the only place you can go for training. PADI and NAUI allow independent instructors.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

Any thoguhts on making and LDS Bashing forum? Just curious. That way these threads would be easier to find etc...

 

[Hoosier]

And perhaps I am biased. The folks in our shops in addition to being service providers are neighbors, soccer moms, dive buddies and often mentors. I think they make out on the initial "certification" purchases with the regulars. After that, I really don't know of any shop regular who pays "retail".

Now somebody comes in from, say West Lafayette because his regulator was lost by the airline, he is probably paying more than I. I suspect however, he will be glad there is a capable shop with techs and the required inventory to save his vacation. He can thank a local regular patron for that.

Your situation is a very exclusive compared to any other cases. That is, the customer isn't trying to make a friend when they spent the money. When the market is small, it used to be possible though. As the market is getting bigger, we can't expect the same business practice.

You are lucky... The LDS in my town is monopolizing the market about 60 mile boundary. Everything is premium price and if you buy something from other LDS, you are punished by delaying the air fill (about week for one nitrox fill) and regulator service (two or three weeks). I really hope this guy is out of business for a potential local new diver.

 

[robertarak]

Just my little, mind you newbi, 2 psi...

I love my LDS (Hollywood Divers). I did my OW with them and have purchased much from them. I have also bought from e-bay, online stores, discounters, private sellers and other LDS'...even stopped into Sport Chalet to pick something up the other night. Sometimes I ask my LDS to match a good internet price, and they have. Sometime I pay the higher price at Hollywood Divers and am happy doing so. I have no problem spending a few extra dollars to support those guys. The time they have spent with me answering stupid newbi questions is worth every penny. The people I have met, the friends I have made, the relationship I have with them will help me to continue diving and continue my education....that is priceless.

The internet guys, the e-bay sellers, and the LDS' all have their place. I BUY from all of them, but I SUPPORT my LDS, and will continue to do so, happily.

 

[Hoosier]

Any thoguhts on making and LDS Bashing forum? Just curious. That way these threads would be easier to find etc...

Before then, it might be more wise to think why there are so many customers who want to bash their own LDS? That is a proper approach that most business schools teach.

 

[dschulte]

You probably have a fire department though...

We in the fire service use a different thread on our SCBA tanks. You can get an adapter, but the usual issue is that the majority of fill stations max out at 2661psi. Stations with the new 4500psi bottles will be able to fill scuba tanks, but you would have to go to a cascade system or adjust the fill pressure. My station can not fill a scuba tank because the tanks do not fit into the station, too large. There are also insurance issues that a municipal department has to address for filling non-fireground related equipment, liability issues.

I have not seen a sporting goods store with scuba fill capabilities, but I would not trust them unless they had a solid scuba department with an experienced staff. I know that the topic of LDS support has been trolled numerous times and always draws a heated debate. If you are comfortable with Internet purchases of equipment then buy it there and best of luck to you with it. I have been in the technology field since 1992 and have seen hundreds of Internet companies fold up overnight. Goodbye to existing orders, warranty support and the deals. You also have to be careful of factory refurbished equipment, overseas supplied equipment and closeouts specials. I will personally still support the LDS. They provide face-to-face knowledge, service, trip coordination, training and friendship. I do not pay the exaggerated hundreds or thousands of dollars extra at the LDS. Most times tax is the only extra I pay over the Internet and I know that I can walk in there and get service or questions answered because of the relationship I have with the LDS. I live in Georgia so shopping at Divers Supply in Macon is a reasonable drive. They have the largest Internet dive business in the world and yet still have better deals in their brick-and-motor locations than via their website. Their primary focus is the local diving community, not the web. I have been to 5 of their 7 locations and it is the same at each; to get the local community diving.

Diving is an expensive hobby, but if the LDS goes away what do you think is going to happen to those Internet prices? No local competition, then the deals will disappear because the only source is the Internet. But that is just business.
:monkeydan