AED Use...Question?

[ArcticDiver]

A little off the thread but interesting never the less. Want an eye opener on just how well done a defib unit cooks the old hot dog? Do the calculation to convert Joules to Amperes for the common shock settings!

 

[cornfed]

If anyone thought this was a ridiculous post, please read the EFR course book and tell me where these other conditions that were mentioned in this thread are stated and explained. What can I say, I like to know why. Obviously, you guys must have asked a lot of questions at some point.

Many of the people responding have more training (I'm an EMT and volunteer firefighter) and/or have actually used an AED on someone. I think it's great that people are getting CPR and AED training. It's not really hard, you just have to keep everything straight. I'd much rather see somone ask a "ridiculous" question then see them accidentally harm someone they're trying to help.

 

[JDKay]

the student might miss something or be afraid to ask for fear of being chastized.
Sean

The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked. Besides, I'm sure that the instructor would have been gentler than some of these posts.
I have heard this debate for the last 10 yrs among the BLS providers in one of the rural areas I work in. Essentially, no you shouldn't. There are valid arguments to the contrary. But, most don't apply to the rec diver who will hopefully never have to face the situation where it is indicated.

training does not answer everything or address all scenerios.
Sean

Nor will it ever. Try as much as we like we can never predict or duplicate everything everyone will see.

For example: I recall that it was advised to turn back my tank valve a 1/4 turn when turning on my tank, I believe that is a questionable action. But, I'm positive that people will argue both sides of the issue.
Sean

Only one side from me. This almost killed me in my advanced class. As far as I am concerned nothing less than all the way will do.

:LIFSAVR:

 

[Firediver]

AED is for an unresponsive patient with NO PULSE. You should only hook it up if they are unresponsive and no pulse. You as a rescuer cannot diagnose if they are in v-tach or V-fib.. Heart Attach or indigestion.. we cannot diagnose unless trained. AED's(Public Access ones) are idiot proof it will not shock unless it reads either V-Fib or V-tach otherwise you preform CPR on an unconcious NO PULSE victim. When you hook up the AED just follow the promps. it will tell you when CPR is needed, when it's analysing, when a shock is needed, when it's charging up.... etc. Let me put it this way, you arn't going to preform CPR on someone that is conciouse and has a pulse?? Only time you would preform CPR when someone has a pulse is if they are choking and it's either witnessed or not witnessed; air won't go in the airway after you tried the first time and re-ajusted and tried a second time, then you would assume they were choking...

 

[Firediver]

If you want the protocols on the AED's <procedure> I have all the info here and would be happy to copy it here to the board.

 

[cornfed]

Only one side from me. This almost killed me in my advanced class. As far as I am concerned nothing less than all the way will do.

Alright, I'll bite... what happened?

 

[JDKay]

Alright, I'll bite... what happened?

We were doing the deep dive in a local lake. It just qualifies and we were at 60 or or 65 feet when I found myself out of air. I swam over to the instructor, made the proper signals and began breathing with his octopus. Boy was it embarrassing when he reached over me and turned my tank on and handed me MY reg back. :sigh_2:

 

[cornfed]

We were doing the deep dive in a local lake. It just qualifies and we were at 60 or or 65 feet when I found myself out of air. I swam over to the instructor, made the proper signals and began breathing with his octopus. Boy was it embarrassing when he reached over me and turned my tank on and handed me MY reg back. :sigh_2:

Well I guess embarrassed is better then dead.

 

[GoBlue!]

AED is for an unresponsive patient with NO PULSE. You should only hook it up if they are unresponsive and no pulse. You as a rescuer cannot diagnose if they are in v-tach or V-fib..

Not sure I quite agree with this. I agree that the only time I'd apply an AED for analysis is with an unresponsive patient, but if I feel a weak rapid pulse, I'd still have the AED analyze. If the patient is unconscious, it's possible to still feel a pulse in the carotid, femoral, or radial artery with quite a low blood pressure. That is, the patient could be unresponsive from unstable V-tach, and could very well have a weak pulse. If they've gone unconscious, they deserve a rhythm analysis if the AED is available.

On the issue of checking pulses, remember that if an AED tells you that a shock is not advised, that certainly doesn't mean you're home-free. Check for a pulse & resume CPR if one is not detected. Of course, the AED should tell you to do this, but it's just good to remember that there are many nonperfusing cardiac rhythms that are NOT corrected by a jolt of electricity.

Let me put it this way, you arn't going to preform CPR on someone that is conciouse and has a pulse?? Only time you would preform CPR when someone has a pulse is if they are choking and it's either witnessed or not witnessed; air won't go in the airway after you tried the first time and re-ajusted and tried a second time, then you would assume they were choking...

By "CPR," I think you mean basic life support. If I'm choking, but I have a pulse, stay the heck away from my sternum.

Jim

 

[bridgediver]

Not sure I quite agree with this. I agree that the only time I'd apply an AED for analysis is with an unresponsive patient, but if I feel a weak rapid pulse, I'd still have the AED analyze. If the patient is unconscious, it's possible to still feel a pulse in the carotid, femoral, or radial artery with quite a low blood pressure. That is, the patient could be unresponsive from unstable V-tach, and could very well have a weak pulse. If they've gone unconscious, they deserve a rhythm analysis if the AED is available.

Blue - as someone already pointed out you do not want to shock someone who is in v-tach with a pulse unless you have and are trained in manual defibrillation. Without syncronized cardioversion which is not a component of an AED shocking someone with a pulse (even v-tach) can stop the electrical and mechanical action of the heart entirely for good. This is why the rule is - If unresponsive and pulseless then AED.

Also, those defib pads cost a fortune and once the package is open they can't be reused. Although a coat of aquaseal may work!