Advise for a travel friendly BCD

[rhwestfall]

My travel fins are ForceFin Pro's. One of the best garage sale finds I've made.....

 

[rongoodman]

My warm water rig consists of a Halcyon SS plate and either a 20# or 30# wing, depending on the exposure protection I'm taking, with Deep Six Eddy fins. Regulators, lights, and computers get carried on. Just make sure you're a couple of pounds shy of the checked weight limit since your gear will probably be a little damp when you come home. I used to use a Wild Things duffel, but since I got older and lazier, I've switched to a rolling duffel from Patagonia.

 

[jd950]

To the OP: You should understand that every discussion on here about a BC choice will generate sermons about the supposed superiority of a BP/W for every diver in every situation. Recent discussions included someone who wanted advice for a first BCD for an 11 year old and an 82 year old diver looking for a BC that was easier to get into due to his shoulder issues. Yes, the BP/W was the touted "solution" for both of these folks. This is really the "Church of the BP/W" forum and many who think the BP/W may not always be the best choice for recreational diving in warm water, especially where air travel is involved have grown, just don't bother participating anymore. I am still one of the holdouts trying to point out that there are other good choices, but it is hard to fight the zealots. Of course, if you like the BP/W, or want to consider one, this forum is a great resource because there are a lot of people very knowledgeable about BP/Ws who are VERY active here. You can get a lot of solid advice about BP/Ws here. Even a simple question about webbing rigidity choices can garner several pages of suggestions, comments and photos and there are some folks who get almost ecstatic talking about their favorite crotch straps. Sometimes I wonder about that one...

If on the other hand you are interested in diving doubles, diving sidemount, drysuit diving where additional weight is important, or you are a really large or really skinny guy or gal who can't find a BCD that fits well, then the BP/W begins to look more appealing. That, at least, is my opinion.

Anyway, if it is a travel-friendly BC you are interested in, you should check out the Scubapro Hydros, Scubapro Litehawk, Aqualung Zuma, Aqualung Outlaw, Zeagle Covert, and Zeagle Stiletto. The Zeagle Express tech might work for you too, if they still make that. Possibly also an Oceanic Biolite or the Aeris equivalent if you can find either of those; they are discontinued, I believe. I am not very familiar with Cressi, so I can't say anything about their line. I suggest the ones above because for the most part they are fairly light and fairly compact when folded up. They are all back-inflate, which is my preference, and I don't know much about what is available in wrap-around type BCDs.

Note: you mention you are a divemaster. That MAY mean you need to carry various bits and pieces that otherwise would not normally be carried by most divers. If so, some of the choices I mentioned above have more pockets and places to clip off items than others and that may matter. Also some are a bit more durable. If so, the Zeagle Stiletto might suit you better than some of the others. Oh, and it also has a modular fit feature so it is easy to get a good fit even if you are not a person with standard dimensions.

By the way, if you do go with a BP/W, I have seen airport security outside of the USA (Cozumel, actually) refuse to allow a steel or aluminum backplate to be transported on the plane as carry-on, so be careful about that and consider packing the backplate in luggage unless you know for sure it can go as carryon.

I hope this has helped.

 

[RayfromTX]

To the OP: You should understand that every discussion on here about a BC choice will generate sermons about the supposed superiority of a BP/W for every diver in every situation. Recent discussions included someone who wanted advice for a first BCD for an 11 year old and an 82 year old diver looking for a BC that was easier to get into due to his shoulder issues. Yes, the BP/W was the touted "solution" for both of these folks. This is really the "Church of the BP/W" forum and many who think the BP/W may not always be the best choice for recreational diving in warm water, especially where air travel is involved have grown, just don't bother participating anymore. I am still one of the holdouts trying to point out that there are other good choices, but it is hard to fight the zealots. Of course, if you like the BP/W, or want to consider one, this forum is a great resource because there are a lot of people very knowledgeable about BP/Ws who are VERY active here. You can get a lot of solid advice about BP/Ws here. Even a simple question about webbing rigidity choices can garner several pages of suggestions, comments and photos and there are some folks who get almost ecstatic talking about their favorite crotch straps. Sometimes I wonder about that one...

If on the other hand you are interested in diving doubles, diving sidemount, drysuit diving where additional weight is important, or you are a really large or really skinny guy or gal who can't find a BCD that fits well, then the BP/W begins to look more appealing. That, at least, is my opinion.

Anyway, if it is a travel-friendly BC you are interested in, you should check out the Scubapro Hydros, Scubapro Litehawk, Aqualung Zuma, Aqualung Outlaw, Zeagle Covert, and Zeagle Stiletto. The Zeagle Express tech might work for you too, if they still make that. Possibly also an Oceanic Biolite or the Aeris equivalent if you can find either of those; they are discontinued, I believe. I am not very familiar with Cressi, so I can't say anything about their line. I suggest the ones above because for the most part they are fairly light and fairly compact when folded up. They are all back-inflate, which is my preference, and I don't know much about what is available in wrap-around type BCDs.

Note: you mention you are a divemaster. That MAY mean you need to carry various bits and pieces that otherwise would not normally be carried by most divers. If so, some of the choices I mentioned above have more pockets and places to clip off items than others and that may matter. Also some are a bit more durable. If so, the Zeagle Stiletto might suit you better than some of the others. Oh, and it also has a modular fit feature so it is easy to get a good fit even if you are not a person with standard dimensions.

By the way, if you do go with a BP/W, I have seen airport security outside of the USA (Cozumel, actually) refuse to allow a steel or aluminum backplate to be transported on the plane as carry-on, so be careful about that and consider packing the backplate in luggage unless you know for sure it can go as carryon.

I hope this has helped.

I don't understand why there is so much pushback against people that express their preference for a bp/w on this website. In every thread about bc choices, there will obviously be many that express their preference for the bp/w. There are many reasons for this but mostly people like to share positive experiences with others.

In every thread there are also people that post that SB is overrun with zealots(your word) that treat bp/w as a religion(your claim). I see countless false claims made for the motives to switch. Some claim that people switch because they want to look like tec divers. Others claim that they are simply following a fad. What would lead you to believe these things. I don't see any evidence for any of these claims. I think my post is typical. I see nothing there that indicates a closed minded fanatacism.

I like my Aqualung Zuma. I will probably never dive it again. I love my DSS Kydex backplate and 20 lb. wing. It is more stable, easier to get in and out of, more versatile, more scalable, easier to dive in trim and it weighs 6 lbs. The Zuma weighs 5 lbs. They take up the same room in a suitcase. They cost the same +/-. The zuma has small plastic d-rings that are not where they need to be and are not usable. I keep it for visitors. I have not used it for that yet. I would sell it but they don't hold their value even though it looks new. It's perfectly fine but it isn't nearly as nice for me as my bp/w. I know I sound like a fanboy.

I am grateful that SB offered me a place to learn about gear that wasn't marketed at my local dive shop. I bought the Zuma at my local dive shop because at the time it was the closest thing they had to the bp/w that I did not yet know about because they didn't tell me it was an option. I knew from trying them that I didn't want a jacket type bc. The Zuma is a back inflate bc and that seemed like a better option. In the bp/w I found a rig that served me even better.

 

[CrumhornDiver]

I agree with @RayfromTX. I think once considered and tried, most people find a bp/w makes sense for most kinds of diving. It's a flexible inexpensive platform that can be put together as cheaply as most jacket BCDs. From a cost point, it's modularity also increases its longevity and overall value.

When I did my Divemaster, I asked my instructor which BCD he recommended. He recommended the Oceanic Excursion, a back inflate BCD. I never asked him about his gear after one comment early in the course about it being his old tech gear. He dove a Halcyon bp/w. His girlfriend, also an instructor who primarily taught Rescue courses, had also recently switched to a Hollis bp/w. I left looking for a back inflate BCD, having never had a bp/w fully explained to me. Bear in mind this instructor worked for a resort that did not sell gear. He had nothing to gain by recommending the Excursion. Only those two instructors and the tech instructor dove a bp/w that I saw. Everyone else pretty much had a jacket BCD. This was a very large resort so there were numerous instructors. Their jacket BCD brands varied widely.

I asked another instructor friend of mine, also independent, what he suggested. He explained bp/w and suggested it (we had this exchange over the Internet). I researched and got worried about comfort with a bp. Then I found SB and many posts on the subject. The more I read, the more I realized how much sense it makes. Definitely an improvement over a jacket BCD, cheaper than many back inflate BCDs, more versatile, less stuff to always lug around (e.g. side pockets you may not be using), a waist belt rather than cumberbun that can come loose during a dive because it's adjustable, useful placement of D-rings, ballast instead of positive buoyancy in the BCD itself. I could go on.

I think for the average person signing up for an OW course with no prior scuba knowledge or friends who had shown them any gear, if you set a bp/w and a jacket BCD in front of them, most would choose the jacket BCD if you let them choose without an explanation. Most probably would not even question the differences before choosing.

If you then had the students run through OW skills in the pool with a jacket BCD then had them do the same skills in a bp/w, I think most would at least be more open to the idea of a bp/w after the exercise if not prefer it. Questions will remain about pockets, and shoulder strap comfort, and weight belts, and other differences. But once everything is explained and alternatives shown, I think most people would realize the value. Too bad this most often happens AFTER someone purchases a jacket or back inflate BCD or not at all.

I wish that someone had taken the time to fully explain a bp/w to me in person at some point before I found SB. Luckily, I delayed gear purchases WAY longer than I should have so I at least had the knowledge to make an informed choice when the time came. I think every diver should have the information required to make the informed choice that works for them.

There are experienced divers who dive jacket BCDs and prefer them. There are experienced divers who dive back-inflate BCDs and prefer them. To each his own. However, on SB I think many people recommend bp/w because they believe in it, they dive it, and because, let's face it, most divers aren't going to have them explained to them when entering most dive shops.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

BP/W are pushed on the internet because that’s the only place where any information about them is available. Dive shops are now just starting to clean all sand out of their eyes and ears after having their heads buried for so long. At least now they are admitting that recreational divers do use BP/W for single tank recreational diving, but they still refuse to stock and sell such systems.
There’s only one reason, money. Dive shops get aggregate deals on conventional gear through big name manufacturers. There is also a lot of markup on conventional bc’s. Stocking BP/W will dilute sales on more profitable bc’s and lower their total aggregate sales on the name brands. BP/W also require more labor intensive set up and there isn’t the same profit margins built in. Also BP/W are generally the “end” product that divers end up with, so that means the last system the dive shop will likely sell to that individual.
All these reasons are why dive shops don’t like BP/W systems.

So, BP/W are stuck in the realm of the internet in the parallel universe of diving.
Get used to it.

 

[RayfromTX]

I mostly agree with you Eric. I would tend to emphasize your point that a jacket bc is more easy to put on, adjust and get in the water. From a saleperson's point of view, it doesn't require as much knowledge or understanding on the part of the customer. It can be adjusted in the water and get close enough to dive it. A dive shop emplyee can literally had one to the customer and ten minutes later, ring it up.

I spent 3 hours adjusting my bp/w the first time with minor adjustments to get it perfect. Once dialed in, there are no more adjustments needed each time I put it on. Set it and forget it. The standard bc requires an adjustment each time it is donned.

The bp/w has a small learning curve and a small adjustment period which makes the internet a valuable resource. If I owned a shop and wanted to push bp/w, I would need to account for the extra time spent helping the customer get fine tuned. You can see in the instructional videos offered by the manufacturers how the process is different for the different systems. I will spare you the car analogies that are dying to be expressed.

I have a few friends that are taking up diving as a result of my stories and videos of our dive trips. They ask me about gear. I could sell them my Zuma but then I would have to explain why I didn't just steer them to a bp/w in the first place. That would feel icky. If one of them says they want my Zuma after trying on my bp/w then I will jump at the opportunity to unload it for a reasonable price.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I mostly agree with you Eric. I would tend to emphasize your point that a jacket bc is more easy to put on, adjust and get in the water. From a saleperson's point of view, it doesn't require as much knowledge or understanding on the part of the customer. It can be adjusted in the water and get close enough to dive it. A dive shop emplyee can literally had one to the customer and ten minutes later, ring it up.

I spent 3 hours adjusting my bp/w the first time with minor adjustments to get it perfect. Once dialed in, there are no more adjustments needed each time I put it on. Set it and forget it. The standard bc requires an adjustment each time it is donned.

The bp/w has a small learning curve and a small adjustment period which makes the internet a valuable resource. If I owned a shop and wanted to push bp/w, I would need to account for the extra time spent helping the customer get fine tuned. You can see in the instructional videos offered by the manufacturers how the process is different for the different systems. I will spare you the car analogies that are dying to be expressed.

I have a few friends that are taking up diving as a result of my stories and videos of our dive trips. They ask me about gear. I could sell them my Zuma but then I would have to explain why I didn't just steer them to a bp/w in the first place. That would feel icky. If one of them says they want my Zuma after trying on my bp/w then I will jump at the opportunity to unload it for a reasonable price.

There is a quick and easy way to set up a BP/W to fit a diver in about 10 minutes or less. This is after the plate has already been laced up with webbing, crotch strap, etc.
I leave out the waist slot keepers, then have the customer put on the unit, generally with two sweatshirts on to simulate a 7mm wetsuit. I’ll have them pull the waist straps to get the slack out then mark the webbing in between the slots where the keeper will go with a white stabilo pencil. This works very well. Then all you have to do is get the crotch strap length set and finally trim and melt over all the webbing ends and you’re all set.
I set people up all the time so I have it down. I can look at a person and get the webbing within an inch or two even before trying it on.
There is no reason why dive shop employees couldn’t learn to do the same thing.

 

[2airishuman]

how well does a backplate and wing fit in a gym bag? what do you use for carryon? this is something I am contemplating. With fins it seems I need a big carryon.

It depends on the gym bag. My backplate does in fact fit into the bag that I use as a gym bag, which is also my air travel carry on bag.

Fin wise, I either check mine or lash them to the outside of my backpack in an x shape.

 

[2airishuman]

To the OP: You should understand that every discussion on here about a BC choice will generate sermons about the supposed superiority of a BP/W for every diver in every situation.

There is a systemic bias towards BP/W configurations on Scubaboard.

I dive a BP/W. My daughter (19) dives a BP/W. My younger daughter will probably switch to one soon. I like them because of their modularity and because they can so readily be reconfigured to fit people if their body shape/size changes over time. I like being able to switch to doubles and back using the same backplate and harness I always use. I like mine for travel. It works for me again with minimal changes by swapping in a less bulky wing. I dive the same harness and backplate in Cozumel that I do in Lake Superior.

I looked at the jacket BCs as mentioned upthread and couldn't convince myself that they were an improvement. Perhaps they are. I would find it insightful to hear from more people who have used them.

By the way, if you do go with a BP/W, I have seen airport security outside of the USA (Cozumel, actually) refuse to allow a steel or aluminum backplate to be transported on the plane as carry-on, so be careful about that and consider packing the backplate in luggage unless you know for sure it can go as carryon.

I have not had a problem carrying on my steel backplate but I agree that you never know what airport security will or will not allow. The closest thing I had to any trouble was a cruise ship port where port security didn't know what it was and asked all kinds of questions. They ultimately let it through.