Advice on slinging an AL40

[KenGordon]

Do you need to check the reg itself, or is periodically checking the pressure gauge sufficient? That is, if the gauge is still showing 3k psi, no problem, right?

Yes, but it may be easier to just turn it on and off rather than looking at the gauge.

 

[doctormike]

In an OOA situation the gas will have to be turned on.

Right, but that's the same thing that we have been discussing upthread. I think that part of "moving up" to the level of diving involving redundant gas supplies implies an ability to deploy it.

Even if you were mugged for your primary by an OOG diver, you should be able to deploy your pony as needed (including opening the valve). It's a tradeoff - one more second stage to maintain and to freeflow vs. quicker donation procedure for an OOG buddy.

 

[KenGordon]

Personally, I usually have them on. Either it is actually CCR bailout or it is likely feeding my suit. I don’t find that I get freeflows, and if I did the reg is very close to my face. Also, I am not deaf.

I dive in the sea and I don’t use a scooter. Maybe that gives me a different view.

 

[KenGordon]

Even if you were mugged for your primary by an OOG diver, you should be able to deploy your pony as needed (including opening the valve). It's a tradeoff - one more second stage to maintain and to freeflow vs. quicker donation procedure for an OOG buddy.

It is not a mugging. It is how we train OOG divers to behave round here.

Edit - I missed this being taking the primary. No, that is not how we teach divers round here. They are taught to take the secondary. I that secondary is off then nobody is being done any favours.

 

[markmud]

You ought to check that regulator on the bottom now and again.

There are pos and cons to the “charged and off” advice. One possible problem is a flooded first stage. Undetected that can lead to a somewhat trashed regulator which seems to work but doesn’t when you actually want to take proper breaths. This will happen if you completely forget to charge it or if the regulator loses the charge. That will happen in the same circumstances as a freeflow plus if the regulator is knocked or otherwise discharged, such as when you jump off a boat.

Hi Ken,

For every tactic there are possible negative issues. However, in the case of a flooded first stage that was a worry for me. Thankfully, that has not manifested itself in my experience--not once. I do check me redundant system underwater and I either put the pony/sling reg in my mouth and take a drag, or I burp it while clipped to my BC.

My instructor for Tech 40/solo and I discussed this and he said that he has not had a problem with that.

How often have you had this issue?

My pony/sling reg has never had evidence of salt water intrusion discovered during overhaul.

Perfection is not obtainable. Life is a gamble. I am rolling the dice with my pony valve off.

markm

 

[markmud]

It is not a mugging. It is how we train OOG divers to behave round here.

Hi Ken,

(I know you were being somewhat humorous/sarcastic, but good humor does has a grain of truth to it.)

Yeah, I don't consider it a mugging either, I consider it to be at the least assault, and if performed on a newb or poorly trained/prepared diver it is attempted manslaughter.

The very same person who rips your primary second stage from your mouth is probably the same person who would freak-out and drown u/w if someone did the same to them. If the OOA diver who grabs your primary does not know to grab the octo, then they won't know to grab the octo for themselves off their own waist.

I know my opinion is viewed poorly by those who believe in the collective, and I don't care.

markm

 

[markmud]

Yes, but it may be easier to just turn it on and off rather than looking at the gauge.

Hi Ken and Cowfish,

Upthread, I agreed with Pete that you should consider being trained in these issues. I believe Ken is an instructor and very seasoned at diving and instructing--his opinions are VERY valid. My instructor is in the same category as Ken.

To ad to Ken's statement about checking the gauge (or not checking it):

My instructor said that while u/w it is useless to check the pony/sling pressure. Keep the valve off and check the system regularly.

While doing a solo NDL emergency ascent, you are going straight to the surface, no safety stop, no finding help u/w, no finding the boat u/w. Those other issues can be resolved once you break surface and have an unlimited supply of breathing gas. Breath your pony till you break surface, or suck it dry while ascending at a safe rate and then do a CESA. Safely get to the surface. Nothing else.

During staged decompression he said don't worry about your sling bottle pressure. If you suck it dry you will have to use your reserve gas to complete your decompression obligation. Once you are u/w you deal with the issues at hand, and you aint getting a fill-up u/w for the sling anyway, so don't worry about it.

markm

 

[KenGordon]

Hi Ken,

For every tactic there are possible negative issues. However, in the case of a flooded first stage that was a worry for me. Thankfully, that has not manifested itself in my experience--not once. I do check me redundant system underwater and I either put the pony/sling reg in my mouth and take a drag, or I burp it while clipped to my BC.

My instructor for Tech 40/solo and I discussed this and he said that he has not had a problem with that.

How often have you had this issue?

My pony/sling reg has never had evidence of salt water intrusion discovered during overhaul.

Perfection is not obtainable. Life is a gamble. I am rolling the dice with my pony valve off.

markm

I have had this happen once such that I noticed it. The somewhat awkward bit was noticing it on the final dive of a CCR course doing a bailout ascent, so I switched to an essentially non working regulator at about 30m. It was ok as there was other gas available.

So sometime earlier in the year I had flooded my shallow bailout/last deco gas (where this regulator is typically used) by not keeping it charged. Now that is a failure of technique on my part, however it is a risk. The dangerous bit is it going undetected, leading to a regulator that seemed to work but was actually very feeble.

For sure the party line for OC deco gas is to have if off and charged. In part that is to avoid anyone accidentally breathing it at the wrong depth. However if diving a single deco gas it might be suit inflation too. Nobody is getting all upset over the risk that it will freeflow away.

 

[markmud]

I have had this happen once such that I noticed it. The somewhat awkward bit was noticing it on the final dive of a CCR course doing a bailout ascent, so I switched to an essentially non working regulator at about 30m. It was ok as there was other gas available.

So sometime earlier in the year I had flooded my shallow bailout/last deco gas (where this regulator is typically used) by not keeping it charged. Now that is a failure of technique on my part, however it is a risk. The dangerous bit is it going undetected, leading to a regulator that seemed to work but was actually very feeble.

For sure the party line for OC deco gas is to have if off and charged. In part that is to avoid anyone accidentally breathing it at the wrong depth. However if diving a single deco gas it might be suit inflation too. Nobody is getting all upset over the risk that it will freeflow away.

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your response.

Yeah, every tactic has a risk. Some are better for certain communities of diving and some are better for other communities of diving. Roll the dice and pick what is best for yourself. I think that is a good take-away. No?

markm

 

[Bierstadt]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your response.

Yeah, every tactic has a risk. Some are better for certain communities of diving and some are better for other communities of diving. Roll the dice and pick what is best for yourself. I think that is a good take-away. No?

markm

This is what I like so much about Scubaboard; there are multiple schools of thought, and divers willing to explain the tactics and defend them in a thoughtful manner. More or less. Sometimes people even change their minds! #mindblown