Advice, hose routing for mirrored left and right second stages

[Squid88]

Howdy I'm just setting up my side mount gear. (There are no sidemount divers in my area apparently but one a ways away I'm looking to hook up with later.)

I have left and right second stages but am having difficulty finding advice on the most comfortable and versatile hose routing. Everything I see online and on YouTube is with both regs configured for the same side.

I assume there's no need to go behind the neck with the hoses and therefore there's also no support from the hose taking any of the second stage weight when using left/right second stages. I'm using a 156 BA and a 109 converted to 159BA so they are not light bodies.

I went through some great lengths to get a mirrored 156/109 second stages but when I am fooling around with hose routing ideas on dry land, it seems the nicest position is when it comes over the shoulder. However I think it may just be that's what I'm used to. By the way I have a 110 degree swivel for each second stage.

Any advice, tips, insight pictures or videos greatly appreciated.

Lastly I was planning to use rubber long hoses on both sides so I can just donate whichever I am using if needed and they will get a long hose. Not sure if that will make a difference routing the hose.

 

[leadduck]

Most divers use hoses between 1m and 2.1m length going both from first stages under your armpits over the left shoulder behind your neck and to your mouth from the right side. That's fine for open water, and for most cave diving without too narrow restrictions as well. Very advanced cave divers diving extremely narrow restrictions tend to use very short hoses and route them directly from the first stages to the mouth, not behind the neck.
Regarding donation, many use two equally long hoses and always donate the one from the mouth. Problem may be picking up the secondary regulator because it's clipped away and not hanging on your neck with a bungee. You may as well use one long hose (right tank) and a short hose on the left tank, the latter one with a bungee on your neck. Problem: 50% of the time you breathe from the short hose and cannot donate that one. Hence you must not simply clip off the long hose but need kind of an velcro octopus holder for it or something similar that you can rip off.

 

[tbone1004]

few things for thought.

I don't go through extremely narrow restrictions often, but I do go through some pretty snug spots with both sides of my body rubbing on the cave to get through.
Running hoses behind the neck is critical for this because as you are squirming, if you have a reg hose that comes straight up to your mouth, it tends to get stuck on things and ripped from your mouth. Hasn't happened to me because I chose to learn the easy way, but call Edd Sorenson and he will give you a few stories of regs getting ripped out.
It's also a great way to have unnecessary jaw fatigue, especially with metal second stages. I have TMJ from playing bagpipes, and it's not something I want to deal with.
If you are on a scooter or in high current it is exceptionally painful over time to deal with.

There are essentially two schools of thought for sidemount hose routing with variation on a theme.

Long hose left
Long hose right

Long hose left includes two short hose configurations, and two long hose configurations.

With a true long hose on the left, you can either route straight up to your mouth with a lefty regulator, or you can cross behind your neck with a right regulator. The latter being a poor choice because it causes the regulator to cross under the diver when in a single file air sharing situation. Former being a poor choice because of the reasons listed above.
This includes two short hose configurations which have the same disadvantages of what is listed above.
The right bottle can have a long or short hose, and can come straight up to the divers mouth *with disadvantages listed above*, or cross behind the divers neck if using a lefty regulator.

Long hose right is considered standard and is typically hog looped around the divers torso. This is what basically all technical sidemount instructors teach with very few exceptions and is considered "standard". Left hose can be long or short and can come straight up to the divers mouth if a lefty regulator, or more traditionally goes behind the neck and is on a necklace for the reasons listed above. The short hose in this situation is not able to be donated because it is crossed with the long hose. A breakaway of some variety is used on the long hose if it is clipped off when breathing on the short hose, or it may just be left to dangle from the neck *the hog loop is usually pulled snug so it doesn't dangle too far down*.

I use Poseidon Jetstreams which are non-directional. I run my short hose up and across my neck to a suicide strap/necklace, and the long hose comes from the right but instead of hog looping, it crosses to the left shoulder. I do not have the worry of a reg hose crossing in a single file situation because the Poseidon is non-directional.

In OW sidemount, I would use two short hoses that cross behind my neck, in your case your lefty 109 would be on the right tank and I would plan on donating that one and that one only. Trying to set it up to be able to donate either reg is going to cause you frustration and jaw fatigue. We conduct thousands of cave dives every year without being able to donate the short hose, and as long as you have your sh!t together, it's a non-issue.

 

[Squid88]

Most divers use hoses between 1m and 2.1m length going both from first stages under your armpits over the left shoulder behind your neck and to your mouth from the right side. That's fine for open water, and for most cave diving without too narrow restrictions as well. Very advanced cave divers diving extremely narrow restrictions tend to use very short hoses and route them directly from the first stages to the mouth, not behind the neck.
Regarding donation, many use two equally long hoses and always donate the one from the mouth. Problem may be picking up the secondary regulator because it's clipped away and not hanging on your neck with a bungee. You may as well use one long hose (right tank) and a short hose on the left tank, the latter one with a bungee on your neck. Problem: 50% of the time you breathe from the short hose and cannot donate that one. Hence you must not simply clip off the long hose but need kind of an velcro octopus holder for it or something similar that you can rip off.

Okay I get that. But that does not really answer my question. I have a left and right second stages. My understanding is to not run either around the neck. So yes, both will get clipped off and I would rig the bolt clips with a strong break away.

What I want to know is about routing those hoses. When the hose run down and back up along the tank then up to the 110 degree adapter on the second stage in the mouth, the hose seems a strait shot up. So bending the head down makes the hose bow out. The hose also seems to inflict more mouth pressure as you move your head around. It seems with the straightish run this is more prominent then when the hose is coming around the neck and over the shoulder. I reckon I'm missing something though.

 

[leadduck]

few things for thought.
I don't go through extremely narrow restrictions often, but I do go through some pretty snug spots with both sides of my body rubbing on the cave to get through.
Running hoses behind the neck is critical for this because as you are squirming, if you have a reg hose that comes straight up to your mouth, it tends to get stuck on things and ripped from your mouth. Hasn't happened to me because I chose to learn the easy way, but call Edd Sorenson and he will give you a few stories of regs getting ripped out.
It's also a great way to have unnecessary jaw fatigue, especially with metal second stages. I have TMJ from playing bagpipes, and it's not something I want to deal with.

I haven't tried it myself but I don't see yet how a straight short hose could be more likely to become entangled or snag an obstacle than a 3-4 times longer hose crossing my whole torso and bending over my left shoulder, with another loop stuck into my waist belt or on the bottle than can come loose anytime without me noticing.

With a true long hose on the left, you can either route straight up to your mouth with a lefty regulator, or you can cross behind your neck with a right regulator. The latter being a poor choice because it causes the regulator to cross under the diver when in a single file air sharing situation. Former being a poor choice because of the reasons listed above.

I'm not sure what you mean with crossing under the diver when in a single file air sharing situation.
My hoses are both about 5'. When breathing from the right tank, both hoses go behind my neck, the right side hose on top, the left side hose below and clipped away on the right shoulder D-ring. When switching regulators, I unwrap the right side hose, clip it to my left shoulder D-ring and make a hose loop in the waist belt or on the tank. I can always donate the primary from my mouth and breathe from my other reg before unclipping it. There's no necklace and no breakaway connector.

 

[leadduck]

P.S.: I don't want to imply my setup is best or better than others. I know there are many ways to do it and there's no standard agreed upon yet. I'm interested in the discussion and willing to learn.

 

[Scott]

My left routes under my arm pit and up on a 90* swivel. Left is on a short hose.
My right routes the same way, also on a swivel. I no longer hog loop my long hose.
Stowing and routing the excess down the cylinder you have to make sure it doesn't get trapped or have a loop hanging off the end. Especially if doing anything in an overhead.
Maybe consider a 5' instead of a 7'.

 

[victorzamora]

I haven't tried it myself but I don't see yet how a straight short hose could be more likely to become entangled or snag an obstacle than a [longer hose] .

It's not that it's more likely to get entangled/snagged....it's that you lose it completely if it does. With a longer hose, you are more likely able to still reach it if it gets snagged.

I'm not sure what you mean with crossing under the diver when in a single file air sharing situation.
My hoses are both about 5'. When breathing from the right tank, both hoses go behind my neck, the right side hose on top, the left side hose below and clipped away on the right shoulder D-ring. When switching regulators, I unwrap the right side hose, clip it to my left shoulder D-ring and make a hose loop in the waist belt or on the tank. I can always donate the primary from my mouth and breathe from my other reg before unclipping it. There's no necklace and no breakaway connector.

In a cave in a single-file air sharing situation (the reason for longhoses), you have one diver immediately behind the other. The longhose on your left bottle with a "standard" sided reg means the hose has to go from your left armpit to the right side of the face of the diver in front of you. This crosses diagonally between the two of you. With a right-sided longhose on a standard reg (or a left-sided longhoses on a reversed reg), the hose would go from your right armpit, up the right side of the diver in front, and into the right side of his/her mouth.

My big issue with two 5-ft hoses is that they're useless to me. I'm 6'6" and BARELY am able to use a 7ft hose. A 5ft hose would mean you'd need a 4.5ft tall diver to be in proper single-file with, or you'd have to dive some configuration where the divers were stacked on top of eachother...which isn't always possible. 5ft hoses don't help for air sharing any more than much shorter hoses.

 

[tbone1004]

@leadduck when the long hoses crossed behind your neck get snagged on stuff, they pull against your neck and you feel it but the reg doesn't get yanked out of your mouth. If the hose is not behind your neck, it just pulls the reg out of your mouth.

For crossing. If using a non-reversed regulator on your left tank, when you go to donate it to a diver and start swimming single file, the regulator is going from the left side of your body, to the right side of their mouth. This artificially shortens the length of the regulator hose because it has to cross, as well as puts it as risk of getting caught on things, and in addition increases the jaw fatigue of that diver as he is pulling the hose across. It's just not good. 5' hoses are too short for single file air sharing anyway, I use 9' on my sidemount rig *granted I'm 6'3" and my buddy Victor is 6'6" so...

Your setup sounds like a lot of extra work and complication when switching regulators that I don't want to deal with. KISS

@Squid88 if you want to get rid of that lefty 109, let me know because I could use a couple of them for my deco bottles....

 

[Squid88]

Okay so far it sounds like pros and cons for going behind the neck or not. With no real clear winner.

What I don't get is the people that are for going around the neck. Does that mean you are routing the right tank reg across the body and around the neck too which I have seen yet some of what I have read seem to praise the right tank routing because they don't have to go behind the neck and can go straight up? Clearly there's also a desire by some to use undidirectional regs or left right regs that are now being produced and sold as sidemount kits. Yet I find little info on the hose routing for those that use them.

What about running the hose from along the tank and then instead of in front of the shoulder and up, go behind and over the shoulder on the same side?

Otherwise I'm trying to figure if there's a safe way to go left tank to right side and vice versa around the neck on both as earlier suggested. It seems though that it would be easy for them to get crossed and when donating one and be caught under the other that's clipped off. If that makes sense. I could always intend on donating one specifically as mentioned and ensure it's always on top but I would like to be consistent and donate the one I'm using always.

I suppose I could go around neck on both and not clip the reg not being used instead, more or less let it hang then locate it using a magnet set to keep it in a consistent position to grab from. Or over the shoulder on the same side and again employ a way to support the hose in position while breathing like said magnets. I have not seen anyone route this way but it seems as viable as any other method. No crossed hoses, donate from either side, clears up the front, seems like low snag possibility and if snagged has a bit more resistance and warning before being pulled from mouth, the hose should move well with head movement also.

I have to finish rebuilding my regs and buy a few more hoses and put it all together and start trying things out but I'd sure like to have a clear direction before hand so I'm not spinning my wheels.

I don't own any tanks yet either so I'll have to mock up and then rent some tanks and get in the water. Thus also advise before hand is very helpful to me.