Advanced Open Water

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so I've been diving for 23 years and have over 1600 dives. finally got my AOW this January while on the T&C Explorer II.

I found that even though I had done countless deep and night dives; used my compass quite often; seen so much coral and learned about all manner of small critters that I was still able to learn new skills.

Yes it was worth it.

Don

This is a good point. I've heard instructors tell students (I used to be one of them) not to wait too long to take AOW because once you have the experience you won't get much out of the course.

If someone asked me today how long they should wait then I would say it doesn't matter. No matter how good your skills are coming into this course, a decent instructor is going to find ways to challenge you. What I like about teaching more experienced divers is that you don't have to teach them how to dive. Someone fresh out of OW who takes AOW will still be busy learning the basics and the course focus is on refining basics; but, a more developed diver taking the same course has already automated the basics and can really focus on weak spots and habits (bad/good) to bootstrap them to the next plateau.

To put it another way that an internet crowd might understand: AOW is nothing like DIR-F but in one sense they have this similarity that divers with very diverse backgrounds can take it and come away feeling better for having taken it, provided the student is open to learning and the instructor has the ability to lift the bar as high as it needs to be.

R..

---------- Post added June 22nd, 2015 at 12:23 PM ----------

I'd like to just offer my own perspective on a couple of points in this post.

Having said that, I didn't get much out of the course. I had a bit over 20 dives logged, so was still quite new (though I still feel fairly new after nearly 100 dives). I do believe I had a reasonable instructor, but the material is simply not very challenging.

The materials literally are written so a child can understand them. This doesn't mean that the instructors' work is done once you have read the book. The instructor's job -- aside from making sure you have 100% comprehension of what's in the book -- is to help you make the link between theory and practice. There are often nuances, some of which are related to local laws and regulations. Others are related to explaining the reasons why PADI (or whatever agency) is giving a certain bit of advice and to translate that into diving methods that will work in local conditions and/or the norms of the local diving community. I usually spend a fair amount of time on the theory doing just this.

One example of the above is something out of the deep dive theory when it talks about DCS. I'll go into a fair amount of detail about what to expect in our local area if you phone the EMS and report that you're involved in a diving accident. I'll walk them through the process of what the EMS, doctors and chamber people will do once you have raised the alarm... in the book it's easy to think that a DCS accident is a list of signs and symptoms and some basic advice..... but what happens in the REAL world when you're out diving and you or your buddy has an accident involving possible DCS? This is kind of important to know..... So that's one example of what the instructor could/should do when addressing the theory for AOW.

The deep dive was no different to any other dive I had been on, just a bit shorter.

Some students experience it like this. Others find this a very intimidating dive. It depends on the person. There are ways to demonstrate to the student that they are experiencing narcosis even if they aren't feeling it and that's always good to do (aside from being a standard). The deep dive can also be done in various conditions (poor viz or whatever) in order to up the amplitude in terms of complications if you're faced with a student who is very relaxed at depth. Personally I like to keep this dive easy and prefer to do more than one deep dive for the reasons I mentioned above but even on a single dive you can adapt mid dive if the student seems to been needing a challenge. This can be done by doing part of the ascent at a significant distance from the bottom, to ask them to lead part of the dive, to ask them to deploy a DSMB from the saftestop, etc etc..... it's all about being creative and having a good feeling for where a little bit of task loading can enhance the experience.

The wreck dive was no different to any other dive - the wreck adventure dive doesn't allow penetration or overhead environments. Tip: be wary of entanglement and sharp edges. There you go - AOW wreck training done.

This is the first dive where my students are exposed to laying out a guideline using a reel and to keep buddy contact, buoyancy control and communication going in the process. I like the wreck dive for this because it's the first time many students have had to deal with a reel under water. I think you may see the main line in what I'm saying by now. A little bit of task loading can go a long way to raising the bar just enough to make the experience special.

I often dive in fairly low viz environments so the night dive wasn't much different either.

Again this depends on what you're doing. Our local lake has a fair amount of nocturnal life so that's what we go looking for. Again, ask the student to navigate and/or lead the dive if they need a bigger challenge.


Navigation - personally I don't find compasses very difficult to use and we'd already covered them in OW anyway. Natural navigation (underwater landmarks, currents, sunlight/shadows, etc) is all basic common sense.

Adding a complication in navigation is also easy. I once had an experienced student who told me before the nav dive that he was like a homing pigeon under water. First dive confirmed that so I did a second dive with him where we went to 20-odd meters and ascended to 10m while he navigated us via compass back to the exit. In our conditions being 10m above the bottom means you have literally zero visual reference for depth or direction. The additional task loading of having to deal with simultaneously watching depth and direction in zero viz was enough of a complication to challenge him and gave me a good beach-head to talk with him after the dive about "task delegation" and "teamwork". He learned something he wasn't expecting.

The only one even close to useful was peak performance buoyancy. It was good to have someone assessing my trim and giving me a few different things to compensate for (eg. suddenly being handed extra weight; suddenly having a couple of kg taken away; swimming through hoops, etc). PPB didn't really change much about my weight or trim though - I was already reasonably well sorted.

Again this is a dive that can be done partially in mid-water with zero visual reference for depth and direction if needed. With some students asking them to navigate along a "depth line" under water is enough of a complication to challenge them...... Assessing trim is only part of it. Some task loading to put buoyancy control on a back burner is where the challenge is. This dive is a good one to talk about how to multi-task as well. I once had a student whose buoyancy control was really good so I challenged her to a game. We would both hover as motionlessly as possible and every 30 seconds my DM would give one or the other of us 1 point for being the most motionless. 10 points wins. See... it's all about looking at what the student needs and applying creativity to the job so you can challenge the student just enough without pushing them into a situation where they lose control of their dive, get into any kind of danger or stop having fun.

YYMV but I would submit that a decent instructor is going to be able to make anyone think they got their money's worth.

R..
 
I did it because I wanted to get better at buoyancy control, it is actually fun doing the "adventure" dives. It makes you a better open water diver I think. I dreaded the 30M component till I did it. The trap is the advanced part, it by no means makes you an advanced diver by any stretch. I had my AOW 10 dives in.
 
I did it because I wanted to get better at buoyancy control, it is actually fun doing the "adventure" dives. It makes you a better open water diver I think. I dreaded the 30M component till I did it. The trap is the advanced part, it by no means makes you an advanced diver by any stretch. I had my AOW 10 dives in.

Perhaps you misunderstand what "advanced" in the title means. It means "advanced beyond Open Water."
 
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Perhaps you misunderstand what "advanced" in the title means. It means "advanced beyond Open Water."

Yup... words mean things.
 
Nah... I agree with DDI. I think it's a misnomer too.

CMAS has the right approach to this. Their diver ratings are just called

- ONE star
- TWO star
- THREE star

and
.... wait for it....
.
.
.
.
.
- FOUR star

Those are completely connotatively neutral ways of dividing up the various levels without giving the course content any associative meaning.

"advanced open water" has always struck me as potentially confusing. Are you an ADVANCED diver or an advanced OPEN WATER diver.....? We are forEVER talking to potential students to try setting realistic expectations about this course. What you can get out of the course varies vastly, as I described above, depending on what you have in your baggage coming in.... so it's not one course. It's one framework, and that's it. PADI could have picked just about any other name in the universe for this course and it would have been better.

If you ask me, as someone in the trenches, I would say you can think of it more as a "enhanced skills" rating than an "advanced" rating. "skills enhancement" can be achieved regardless of what you have coming in, even if you have "advanced" well beyond OW before taking the course.

R..
 
I've always liked Stush Doviat's description of the PADI levels: OW is breathe in, breathe out, don't hold your breath, don't go too deep, don't stay too long, have a good time; AOW is cool things to do while not holding your breath; Rescue is what to do if someone holds their breath.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
"advanced open water" has always struck me as potentially confusing. Are you an ADVANCED diver or an advanced OPEN WATER diver.....?

R..

In the not too distant past, it was not the issue it is now. It all hinges on the quality of OW Diver, which used to mean more at one time than it does now.




Bob
-------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.
 
"advanced open water" has always struck me as potentially confusing. Are you an ADVANCED diver or an advanced OPEN WATER diver.....?

Grammar didn't used to be so confusing for folks when schools still taught how to diagram sentences.

sentencediagrams4.png


Rob is an Advanced Open Water Diver.

Since "Open Water Diver" itself is a title/rating it is a noun. Therefore "advanced" is an adjective that modifies the noun "Open Water Diver." No confusion.

If Open Water Diver were not a title/rating, we'd be dealing with a compound adjective...

Suppose Rob. with 1,000 to 2,499 logged dives under his belt, decided to sign up for and passed an intro to cave course?

Rob is an intro-level cave diver.

"Intro-level" is an adjective that modifies the noun "cave diver"

Or would you be confused into thinking that Rob is a brand new "intro-level diver" who has no business signing moving on to a full-cave course?
 
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In the not too distant past, it was not the issue it is now. It all hinges on the quality of OW Diver, which used to mean more at one time than it does now.
Bob
-------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

A_long_time_ago.jpg
 
Perhaps you misunderstand what "advanced" in the title means. It means "advanced beyond Open Water."

From PADI website: "it’s designed to advance your diving, so you can start right after earning your PADI Open Water Diver certification. The course helps build confidence and expand your scuba skills through different Adventure Dives. You try out different specialties while gaining experience under the supervision of your PADI Instructor. You log dives and develop capabilities as you find new ways to have fun scuba diving."

I once had an experienced student who told me before the nav dive that he was like a homing pigeon under water. First dive confirmed that so I did a second dive with him where we went to 20-odd meters and ascended to 10m while he navigated us via compass back to the exit.

Was the 2nd nav dive a part of the AOW course? Did the student get 6 dives for the price of 5?

YYMV but I would submit that a decent instructor is going to be able to make anyone think they got their money's worth.

I'm thinking that taking AOW on an island, say in the Caribbean, is different that taking it at your local dive shop in the states. Some instructors posting here say they push their students if the specialty dive they are working on is easy for the student. Guessing on the island that the specialty dives would be very basic.
 
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