advanced open water with padi or naui

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But if they've done all the skills and are a muppet, how do you continue training them toward mastery for the 10'th or 20'th class when their parent is pissed they have not graduated yet?
I believe in frequent conversations with parents on progress of their child. I typically teach adults. The last underage student I had is also the best student I've ever had. 14 year old girl, competitive synchronized swimmer. She. Was. Awesome. She just picked up diving so well. Great finning, control, attitude, awareness.

So not the best example for a child having difficulty. Other minors, I was co teaching with more experienced instructors.

I currently offer partial refunds (minus expenses and some of my time) to anyone who is dissatisfied and wishes to terminate continued training. I've never had anyone take me up on that. Hope that it never happens.

But before I teach a minor, I'm having a separate conversation to ensure that they want to dive, or are their parents pushing them. If my Spidey sense goes off, I will decline to teach.
 
Using child and parent was a distraction to the issue of skills and diving. Sorry. I imagine you have frequent conversations with adult students as well.

The key issue was they have done the required skills well, but are 'not really suited to be in the water', what now?
 
Using child and parent was a distraction to the issue of skills and diving. I imagine you have frequent conversations with adult students as well.

The key issue was done the skills well, but a muppet, what now?
Ah, well a student should have a clear understanding of how they are progressing.

I require an evaluation dive with students if I don't know them. So "muppetry" should be addressed before the course begins.
 
I cannot imagine any training agency would frown upon this. Nor can I imagine one that would prohibit it. I can see why you cannot fail a student at the OW level for not being able to backfin.
I can't backfin. Made a lame attempt at it with my split fins. Not worth the effort to learn for the type of diving I do. Now I you're wreck or cave penetrating you'd better know how.
 
How about ditch & don at the bottom of a 15 foot deep swimming pool?
It was part of my OW course decades ago. I suspect it is still done by some.
Do you mean swimming down and putting on all equipment (but suit, weights) from scratch at the bottom, or just BCD (already a skill, but probably in a shallower deep end)?
 
Off topic, Sorry:
MUPPET , the acronym had a few meanings years ago here : Most - Useless - Pr..k - P... - Ever - Trained.
Is that one of the meanings of MUPPET over there in the US ?

muppetry
 
Off topic, Sorry:
MUPPET , the acronym had a few meanings years ago here : Most - Useless - Pr..k - P... - Ever - Trained.
Is that one of the meanings of MUPPET over there in the US ?
I'm not sure it is all that common. It is just what came to mind.
Useless or a danger in the water was my intended meaning.
Yet has completed all the skills.
 
Do you mean swimming down and putting on all equipment (but suit, weights) from scratch at the bottom, or just BCD (already a skill, but probably in a shallower deep end)?
That's half of it.

You are supposed to take all your gear off at the bottom, swim to the surface, swim back down, and put it back on.

Most famously in recent years, an SSI instructor had students doing it at the University of Alabama, and one of them died during the initial ascent. That is, of course, the most dangerous part, since the student is doing a CESA without the normal required safeguard of having a regulator in the mouth. Another fear is the student holding the breath (which is what happened in Alabama), and some instructors used to swim up with students to make sure that did not happen. In the University of Alabama case, the instructor was not watching the exercise.
 
That's half of it.

You are supposed to take all your gear off at the bottom, swim to the surface, swim back down, and put it back on.

Most famously in recent years, an SSI instructor had students doing it at the University of Alabama, and one of them died during the initial ascent. That is, of course, the most dangerous part, since the student is doing a CESA without the normal required safeguard of having a regulator in the mouth. Another fear is the student holding the breath (which is what happened in Alabama), and some instructors used to swim up with students to make sure that did not happen. In the University of Alabama case, the instructor was not watching the exercise.
Thanks. I did it once with the my gear already piled on the bottom, so yeah, the half of it. I can't figure why taking it off first while you're down there would be any harder.
The only bad thing you'd think can happen is holding your breath, as you said, during the ascent without scuba. There should be no other concerns CESAing from 15 feet. Of course you would think that anyone who is asked to do this would be thoroughly familiar with CESA and "never hold your breath".
 
...OK, Ayisha, you have just declared that I am an incompetent instructor. Please explain what you have seen in my instructional practices that makes me such a POS.

That's hilarious. I have said nothing of the sort. You may need to re-read my post to improve your comprehension.

If you projected my post onto yourself, then you have evaluated yourself as "incompetent". That came from you, not me.

It's interesting that you did not identify with "some PADI instructors who produce proficient, capable students", but put yourself out of that group.

...There are some PADI instructors who produce proficient, capable students, but some agencies instructors consistently produce proficient, capable divers.

What is also interesting is that if a newer diver asks for opinions about PADI compared to other agencies, "some" PADI instructors will typically come out swinging, complete with one-off examples. :rofl3:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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