advanced open water with padi or naui

[wetb4igetinthewater]

How about ditch & don at the bottom of a 15 foot deep swimming pool?
It was part of my OW course decades ago. I suspect it is still done by some.

How about requiring backfinning and helicopter turns in buoyancy courses? Slow, smooth controlled ascents stopping every 10 feet?

That seems MUCH more likely.

Instructors that have this sort of flexibility will check with their agencies if they have IQs above 50.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

How about requiring backfinning and helicopter turns in buoyancy courses? Slow, smooth controlled ascents stopping every 10 feet?

I cannot imagine any training agency would frown upon this. Nor can I imagine one that would prohibit it. I can see why you cannot fail a student at the OW level for not being able to backfin.

 

[Jcp2]

.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I cannot imagine any training agency would frown upon this. Nor can I imagine one that would prohibit it. I can see why you cannot fail a student at the OW level for not being able to backfin.

If you require backing in PPB in order to be certified, that is prohibited. You can teach it, but not require proficiency at it. That's my point which I thought was fairly clear.

And yes, no agency that allows additional skill requirements should object to something sensibile. But stuff like don/doff or breathing straight from a tank, yeah, they are going to have a problem with that.

Given the litigious nature of at least the United States, even sensible things should be checked.

If an instructor gets feedback along the lines of "uh, we don't think you should do that", they may need some self-reflection on their approach to teaching.

 

[MichaelMc]

Student: I do all the required skills like a DM candidate. Why have I not passed yet?
Instructor: Because beyond those listed skills you are a muppet.

ETA: I changed it to an adult student, as parent child was beside the main point of they have done the listed skills but are not well suited to be in the water. And no, I would not say muppet, maybe "I'm still uncomfortable with your safety" or some such.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

If you require backing in PPB in order to be certified, that is prohibited. You can teach it, but not require proficiency at it. That's my point which I thought was fairly clear.

Roger that.

A student should not fail the PPB class if they cannot backfin if the instructor unilaterally decides to add it to the curriculum.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Roger that.

A student should not fail the PPB class if they cannot backfin if the instructor unilaterally decides to add it to the curriculum.

To do so would be a standards violation for that agency.

Other agencies would allow/support an instructor to require that and fail a student who was not able. Though I don't like to use the word fail. Rather, I believe in breaking up con ed with teaching (which includes feedback for students attempting skills), a break where the student practice until they master the skill, and then an evalution to ensure that skills have been mastered. I do understand this doesn't work in vacation spots where students are there for a short period of time. They want a card for their efforts, even if their efforts fall short. That's a business reality.

To me it is about sensible additions. For earlier courses, adding (or interpreting) things for improved control (finning, ascents, descents).

Once those items are mastered, then add some sort of task loading. Say a deep diver course with deploying a DSMB from depth and stopping at 10 foot intervals.

I'm on the fence about anything additional to that. I've stopped teaching deep courses due to my awareness of gas density issues, I need to have a conversation with higher ups on how to address that. Obviously I'm not going to create an emergency, or force my students to fin really hard to exert themselves and give them a task, at 130 feet and say back at the surface "see how hard it is to deal with that when you are narced out of your mind due to increased CO2 generation?" But I would like someway to address gas density issues at depth when dealing with emergencies. But that is a long conversation that I will have in the future with not just my agency, but other experts as well. I will NOT just be a cowboy and put my students at risk. Whatever I do (if I do anything at all), it will be safe, approved by my agency, and vetted.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Parent: Junior does all the required skills like a DM candidate. Why have they not passed yet?
Instructor: Because beyond those listed skills they are a muppet.

I shouldn't be laughing, but I am. Not the words I would choose however.

 

[MichaelMc]

I shouldn't be laughing, but I am. Not the words I would choose however.

True. Nor would I say it that way. But that would be the underlying reason.

 

[MichaelMc]

But if they've done all the skills and are a muppet, how do you continue training them toward mastery for the 10'th or 20'th session when their parent is pissed they haven't graduated yet?