Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Sebs]

What I like about this thread is a number of individuals complaining that scuba instruction is bad, they've had bad instruction themselves but then refuse to dob in the offending dive shop to the agency because "nothing would happen anyway" and then blame agencies for not doing anything about ****** instruction.

So I'm asking. In your mind, what should happen in the scuba industry going forward to make the sport accessible, not prohibitively expensive and safe?

 

[scubaozy]

It wasn't necessarily that any standard hindered them, but that they went much further than the standards required. PADI standard says 8:1 ratio for OW dives, that seems reckless to me. Doing skills on the knees is not prohibited by the standards. Those are just a couple issues off the top of my head. Of course, a lot of good instructors will teach neutrally buoyant and with a more conservative ratio, but it's not required. With the lack of quality control I'm referring to certified divers I've seen that should never have been certified, and tragic accident like what happened to Linnea Mills.

Edit to add:
It's not my intention to single out PADI here, it's just an example from my own training.

To be honest, I fail to see causal connection with the standards; you took 1 course with a favorable instructor/student ratio and you conclude that was the reason you are better trained. You seem to have opinion (we all do) but not substance/data backing it. Padi standard for confined water is 1:10 and 1:8 for open water. Those are absolute maximum limits, padi will not enforce any number, contrary they tell you to use sound judgement and risk assessment to determine the ratios. So if the conditions are rough and instructor is taking maximum number of participants, this can be considered as standard violation.

 

[Arkman]

What I like about this thread is a number of individuals complaining that scuba instruction is bad, they've had bad instruction themselves but then refuse to dob in the offending dive shop to the agency because "nothing would happen anyway" and then blame agencies for not doing anything about ****** instruction.

So I'm asking. In your mind, what should happen in the scuba industry going forward to make the sport accessible, not prohibitively expensive and safe?

I can't speak for others in this thread, but I do understand if thier situation is like mine. I am not in an area with a lot of dive shop options. Somehow there are two in my city. A city that is not that big and we really don't have much for diving unless you drive about an hour. Even then, it's not much. The shop that did my AOW is not one of these. It was in a different part of the state with some more diving, but they are the only shop for 150 miles. The next closest shop is also owned by him. So if I want to get tank rentals or air fills there, I may have to be careful. I don't know, maybe he wouldn't hold it against me, but he seems like he might.

I still may send a report to PADI, I'm waiting to hear back from the shop owner to get his side of the story and see what comes of it. If he takes corrective measures, then I don't know that reporting them is the right move.

I do think there is some validity in complaining about poor instruction and blaming agencies. The individual agencies as well as the WRSTC write the training standards (as I understand it). Ultimately they are responsible for the quality of training we get. I think what would make a huge impact is time. More time spend on all the training, but time = money. I have to image the best way to grow the sport is to make classes accessible and AFFORDABLE. So I'm not sure how to solve the problem. I'm not saying there isn't a way, I just don't know what it is.

Maybe agencies like PADI should do instructor evaluations and provide some sort of way to view the rating for individuals. Then it would be easier for students to make an informed decision on who they want for instruction. Send out a detailed survey after the class, maybe even incentivise it. Give a discount on the next PADI class if you fill out the survey? I don't know...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If I read ScubaBoard I can run into 15-20 people saying the same thing over and over and over and over, with no facts to back them up. Sorry, that doesn't cut it for evidence. I can find more people telling me the earth is flat.

Please identify the 15-20 people who are the only ones saying the same things over and over and no facts to back them up.

What specific evidence would it take to please you?

 

[Sebs]

I can't speak for others in this thread, but I do understand if thier situation is like mine. I am not in an area with a lot of dive shop options. Somehow there are two in my city. A city that is not that big and we really don't have much for diving unless you drive about an hour. Even then, it's not much. The shop that did my AOW is not one of these. It was in a different part of the state with some more diving, but they are the only shop for 150 miles. The next closest shop is also owned by him. So if I want to get tank rentals or air fills there, I may have to be careful. I don't know, maybe he wouldn't hold it against me, but he seems like he might.

Maybe I'm naive or just don't get it but how do you see this backfiring at you specifically? Wouldn't it be more likely that PADI will contact the shop because they've had complaints about poor training and perhaps breaking standards? Or auditing training records/sending a mole to see what their courses are like? I doubt they'll specifically mention you by name (if they decide to follow it up).

 

[Arkman]

Maybe I'm naive or just don't get it but how do you see this backfiring at you specifically? Wouldn't it be more likely that PADI will contact the shop because they've had complaints about poor training and perhaps breaking standards? Or auditing training records/sending a mole to see what their courses are like? I doubt they'll specifically mention you by name (if they decide to follow it up).

Yeah, you could be right. Most likely you are right. That said, I've already contacted the shop owner with specific issues I saw. I'm assuming IF padi decided to follow up they'd probably bring up my points. Maybe not. They don't train that many people at this shop so it seem likely that the owner would know who it was.

My guess is, if they decided to follow up, PADI would just send the shop a form letter that says they've had complaints about standards violations. As many shops and instructors as an organization like PADI has, I have to imagine they don't have time to follow up on every complaint. It probably takes a handful of serious complaints to get traction? Does any one know what the typical course of action is for PADI in a situation like this?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

What specific evidence would it take to please you?

Hell, if my evidence wasn't enough to please him, what would it take? A death due to negligence of a certified instructor and shop? Oh wait, we have that too.

 

[tursiops]

Hell, if my evidence wasn't enough to please him, what would it take? A death due to negligence of a certified instructor and shop? Oh wait, we have that too.

Your "evidence" is hearsay.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Your "evidence" is hearsay.

Linnea Mills dying is hearsay?!?

How about Jennifer Coyne? Patricia Flores-Perez? Yuyu Xu? Tareq Saade? 4 individuals, one dive center.

 

[tursiops]

Linnea Mills dying is hearsay?!?

That's over and done; PADI has dealt with it. I thought he had mentioned some other case he'd heard of. If not, I apologize. I'm just hypersensitive to "I heard...." kinds of so-called evidence.