Advanced Divers too soon?..

[rbnelsoncausa]

I have taught OW and AOW and many specialties as an SSI instructor, and feel that the SSI model requiring dive experience is a huge benefit. The divers need to absorb and apply the basic skills before taking on more training to really get the benefit. Some also have their 10 dives and think they are really advanced divers, which can lead to some serious consequences. I have had some students that could certainly take on all the material and get it right away, but the bulk really need time to get it all figured out before taking on more. For those that really commit to diving, the break allows them to really get the buoyancy and other skills down pat and then come back to AOW ready to learn and apply the new skills. I think when dive boats and such list dives as advanced, they don't mean 10 dives without pretty broad experience in handling currents and other challenges. It's just not a good outcome for the diver or the other divers, as stated by an earlier post.

 

[boulderjohn]

But polished skills do not a diver make -- as a friend of mine told me, years ago, GUE Fundamentals (which seriously polishes skills) can make a 25 dive diver LOOK like a 100 dive diver, but they still AREN'T a 100 dive diver. (Although, as I type this, I have to grin -- a 100 dive diver is still a novice, looking back from seven years later.) Experience teaches lessons than one simply doesn't get from classes -- only experience can teach you that the water doesn't care, and that if you misjudge, you'll get spanked, every time. Only experience can teach you that you should always slant the odds in your favor . . . if you are pushing your limits in one area, make sure the others are more than well covered! And only experience can teach you that there is a point where, no matter what the dive is, it needs to be called then and there. THAT's what makes an "advanced" diver. The classes are misnamed, but they serve their purpose in a world where an "active diver" does 12 dives a year.

I really think it depends upon the quality of the experience. I have seen you quote the 25 dive/100 dive maxim a few times, and I know you have read what will follow a few times as well.

The single day that most impacted my philosophy as an instructor occurred a few years ago in Hawai'i. I was on a large boat, and the divers were divided into 3 groups. One of the members of our group explained the setup. He was a part time, fill-in DM for the operator, and they were breaking in a new DM with our group. Every diver in our group had more dives than the DM; in fact, every diver in our group had well over 300 dives. The DM pretty much tagged along with us.

I was absolutely appalled at what I saw in our group. I saw people kneeling on the coral to clear their masks. I saw people lying on the coral to get the proper angle for a photograph. I saw someone actually stand on the coral at one point. I vowed that from then on my most beginning OW student would be better than that.

I would rather dive with a well trained diver with 25 dives (and GUE is good training, although you can get it elsewhere as well) than with anyone in that highly experienced group.

 

[gcarter]

I really think it depends upon the quality of the experience. I have seen you quote the 25 dive/100 dive maxim a few times, and I know you have read what will follow a few times as well.

The single day that most impacted my philosophy as an instructor occurred a few years ago in Hawai'i. I was on a large boat, and the divers were divided into 3 groups. One of the members of our group explained the setup. He was a part time, fill-in DM for the operator, and they were breaking in a new DM with our group. Every diver in our group had more dives than the DM; in fact, every diver in our group had well over 300 dives. The DM pretty much tagged along with us.

I was absolutely appalled at what I saw in our group. I saw people kneeling on the coral to clear their masks. I saw people lying on the coral to get the proper angle for a photograph. I saw someone actually stand on the coral at one point. I vowed that from then on my most beginning OW student would be better than that.

I would rather dive with a well trained diver with 25 dives (and GUE is good training, although you can get it elsewhere as well) than with anyone in that highly experienced group.

I had my 1st warm water trip since my cert last month, and that is exactly what I saw in the group I was diving with. The only thing I would add is that I KNOW some of them had better skills - they just didn't care. I somehow found that worse.

 

[Tigerman]

Not caring BY FAR trump not knowing when it comes to the "omg, stay away from the boats I use" scale..

 

[Akimbo]

…To answer your questions:

1: Yes, as a NAUI Instructor I have the freedom to teach as I sit fit, when it benefits the students. In short, fully integrated…

I was thinking about this comment last night. I didn’t realize that other agencies didn’t allow this latitude. Can you, and others, name the agencies that restrict instructors’ option to teach an integrated course like yours?

 

[Zen Diving Inc.]

I was thinking about this comment last night. I didn’t realize that other agencies didn’t allow this latitude. Can you, and others, name the agencies that restrict instructors’ option to teach an integrated course like yours?

Well I could... Then the flaming would begin and I would be labeled as bashing this or that agency. However all of my customers are of course made aware of that fact during the initial interview with me or anyone who works with me. Just about any NAUI instructor surely makes note of it at some point. On the down side to be fair some instructors should have to do it "by the book" at least till the get a few students under their belt... Its just not something you can teach, it has to be developed by the teacher over time if done prematurely can cause more harm them good. Remember, first learned best remembered. Better to do it by the book and have a good class then come up with your own thing and "F" things up for new students... A lot of commercial dive schools use this method, at least the one I went to "DIT".... Back in the day...