Adequacy of OW and AOW

[cuyler]

Unless, of course, it's a holiday week-end ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If your weekend isn't at least three days long you're doing it wrong.

 

[Frosty]

And a 29 year old male who vacations in Koh Lanta, Thailand, has less than 24 dives, was just certified in Janurary yet already owns Sherwood Trek Fins, Sherwood SM1 Mask, Sherwood Absolute Dry Snorkle, Akona 7mm boots, HOG D1 Coldwater First stage & 2 x D1 second stages, Zeagle Tech BC, Bare Elastek 3mm Full, Tusa Compact 3 Gauge Console AND has already made 35 posts to ScubaBoard is REALLY representative of the vast majority of this centuries new divers.

At least he's someone with recent experience of the OW course.
I'm not much different (except maybee for age)

 

[Frosty]

Although I'm far from instructor level at diving But in other feilds I am an instructor.
I disagree totally with the common view expressed here that the main factor in what you get from instruction is down to the quality of your instructor. I feel thats a total cop out.
To my mind the controlling factor is YOU.
You get back what you are prepared to put in.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, my Warped View of the Dive World is that less than 50% of this centuries newly certified OW divers who signed up for 3-day OW certification courses received their cert card after only 3 days with their OW instructor (and at least part of a prior day on homework).

The trouble with using the term 'world' is that the definition is kinda global. Wheras, you seem to be identifying with your local dive industry and assuming that it is replicated universally.

Your assumptions certainly do not encompass the realities of many diving locations that I have visited, or worked in. Having dived in 18 countries, across 4 contintents, I can see that the USA dive scene is considerably different to the 'global' industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halemanō
In order for the vast majority to complete the course in 3 days I think they would need to; finish all the book/dvd/eLearning/homework prior to showing up at the start of day 1, be relatively fit and relatively comfortable snorkeling, and be able to put up with a relatively grueling schedule for those 3 days.

I don't think that turning up at 8am, for a few hours of theory, followed by a relaxing afternoon on a dive boat (completing 2 dives) could be considered 'gruelling'. Nor is the requirement to do a little homework and complete a couple of knowledge reviews.

I may be ex-military, but I really don't think I am over-estimating the average divers' stamina, focus and motivation when I consider such a schedule to be less than gruelling.

It is evidently in the best interests of many SB members to "claim" today's scuba diving instruction is "less than safe" - in order for them to be able to sell you something.

There's an important differentiation between 'safe' and 'optimum'. Divin is a reasonably safe activity. Post-qualification incidents tend to occur as a result of a falure to adhere to safe diving practices, rather than a failure to teach the required skills and procedures effectively. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

A scuba course ratified by a prime scuba agency contains all of the required skills and knowledge required for safe diving within the limitations recommended at that training level.

However, being taught those skills and ingraining those skills is a different matter. Some instructors view the need to ingrain skills as a safety critical issue. In contrast, other instructors (and the agencies in general) see that a training course provides the skills... but expects the student/diver themselves to put those skills into practice and ingrain them after qualification. The later viewpoint places far more responsibility on the student/diver for their post-course development.

It boils down to what definition you apply to the word 'mastery'. However, the simple fact is that whatever definition you use, scuba diving remains a statistically safe pursuit. That said, the quality of divers produced at the end of a training course can vary remarkably. Whilst this is predominantly dictated by the individual characteristics of both the student and the instructor... the duration and intensity of the course itself can enable, or detract from, the learning experience.

 

[Frosty]

THIS IS A MYTH!!!!

The vast majority of typical recreational OW training courses may be marketed as 3-day courses. In order for the vast majority to complete the course in 3 days I think they would need to; finish all the book/dvd/eLearning/homework prior to showing up at the start of day 1, be relatively fit and relatively comfortable snorkeling, and be able to put up with a relatively grueling schedule for those 3 days.

I would say the vast majority of the last decade's new divers "signed up" for 3-day courses, but I seriously doubt that even a majority of those who signed up for 3-day courses completed OW certification in 3-days.

HU?? Heck both myself and my wife did just that. Handed the book and told to read the first three chapters.
I diddn't feel it was gruelling and neither did my wife.But we both have the view that your OW cert is a licence to learn not a freedom ticket.
To me it certainly made me aware of how much I needed to learn but by gosh --"aint that fantastic??

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Although I'm far from instructor level at diving I am in other feilds.
I disagree totally with the common view expressed here that the main factor in what you get from instruction is your instructor. I feel thats a total cop out.
To my mind the controlling factor is YOU.
You get back what you are prepared to put in.

Somebody gets it ... I'm having that exact discussion on another forum right now ... the instructor can only deliver the knowledge. What you do with it is up to you. Consider it like a football game ... the instructor is the quarterback and you are the receiver. They can deliver the perfect pass ... but you still have to catch it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The trouble with using the term 'world' is that the definition is kinda global. Wheras, you seem to be identifying with your local dive industry and assuming that it is replicated universally.

... sometimes I get the impression that Hawaii is isolated from the rest of the planet by more than just geography ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fjpatrum]

... sometimes I get the impression that Hawaii is isolated from the rest of the planet by more than just geography ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Or perhaps just Halemano is?

As a fairly recent OW student, I'd say I've seen quite a few classes marketed as 3 day courses. Pretty much any vacation destination that has diving has courses like this. I found no less than 4 in FL last week and found a few in HI last year as well. In my opinion, 3 days to read the course materials and go through the dives is remarkably easy to do for anyone that has a high school education or better and is not in poor health. Like many of the other newly certified OW divers on here I got my course materials the night before my first class. I read the entire book while eating my dinner before the class. It took about half an hour. I got 100% on all tests required for the course with just 1 reading of the book. That may be a bit out of norm, but it's certainly not difficult to do the same thing and receive at least passing marks. My specific class was 4 days. 2 days were class and confined dives and 2 days OW dives. The shop offered a "compressed" 3 day course that was just dives and you do the "e-learning" but I wanted to have real instructors. Turns out I would have been just fine with the e-learning but at the time I wasn't sure.

Was it adequate? Certainly. It got me certified and I've been diving safely since.

As someone else recently posted, though, it isn't a "free ticket". I think I can dive anywhere I want but that doesn't mean I've stopped learning as much as I can about diving. I don't really have a big interest in tech diving but I do like some of the gear choices, for example. My class didn't get into any of that, I learned it here on Scubaboard. My class pushed further coursework for getting good buoyancy and trim, but in a few days reading on here I learned several techniques for immediately improving mine. I'm not a "poor diver" but nor am I rich and I have other interests to throw money at without spending every dime I have on further formal training. Just because I choose not to purchase formal courses doesn't mean I should stop learning though.

 

[Zippsy]

My guess is that the poll tells less about the adequacy of the OW course than it tells about what experienced divers consider a safe dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My guess is that the poll tells less about the adequacy of the OW course than it tells about what experienced divers consider a safe dive.

... or perhaps it simply speaks to how many of us look back on the dives we did shortly after our OW cert and say to ourselves "Holy Crap!"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)