Adequacy of OW and AOW

[seaducer]

Yes, my Warped View of the Dive World is that less than 50% of this centuries newly certified OW divers who signed up for 3-day OW certification courses received their cert card after only 3 days with their OW instructor (and at least part of a prior day on homework).

I am 110 % confident you have rock solid statistics to back this up

 

[Zippsy]

... or perhaps it simply speaks to how many of us look back on the dives we did shortly after our OW cert and say to ourselves "Holy Crap!"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Entirely possible too. But would those dives have been "within the certification limits"?

 

[Frosty]

Consider it like a football game ... the instructor is the quarterback and you are the receiver. They can deliver the perfect pass ... but you still have to catch it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Wazza quarterback? -You mean a halfback and a forward doncha ?
In REAL football we don't wear pads bro
I'm sorry Bob I'm just pulling ya leg -Here in unzud football is a bit different that the US.
But seriously -I really hate this gen Y mindset that its always someone elses fault.
For gosh sakes what happened to the days we had sod all rules because we accepted personal responsibility for our own actions?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Entirely possible too. But would those dives have been "within the certification limits"?

Many of them were well within limits ... it's just that I either didn't hear the instructor explain something, or I heard something completely different than he actually said.

Hearing something explained ... or reading about it ... isn't the same as experiencing it. When you're new there will always be times you do something and then have that "ah HA!" moment when what you're instructor told you suddenly takes on a whole new meaning. At times, that "ah HA!" will end up sounding more like "Holy CRAP!" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

Somebody gets it ... I'm having that exact discussion on another forum right now ... the instructor can only deliver the knowledge. What you do with it is up to you. Consider it like a football game ... the instructor is the quarterback and you are the receiver. They can deliver the perfect pass ... but you still have to catch it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bad passes were thrown to me by 4 different "quarterbacks" in:
OW
AOW
Rescue
O2 provider

The last one was intentional, I just wanted that stupid card to be done and over with it. The previous 3 were mistakes in instructor choice that maybe I could have avoided, but the internet and even word of mouth about instructors wasn't as forthcoming with information back then.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Bad passes were thrown to me by 4 different "quarterbacks" in:
OW
AOW
Rescue
O2 provider

The last one was intentional, I just wanted that stupid card to be done and over with it. The previous 3 were mistakes in instructor choice that maybe I could have avoided, but the internet and even word of mouth about instructors wasn't as forthcoming with information back then.

Thanks for saying this. My instructors for OW and AOW were bare bones and taught me nothing. While there are great instructors here on this forum, the blame almost always lays with the instructor (professional) who doesnt teach correctly and NOT with the student who doesnt know better.

 

[rjack321]

Thanks for saying this. My instructors for OW and AOW were bare bones and taught me nothing. While there are great instructors here on this forum, the blame almost always lays with the instructor (professional) who doesnt teach correctly and NOT with the student who doesnt know better.

People talk in generalities about less than great instructors but P-foot around and won't or can't (due to libel/slander) say particular instructors suck. I think I've had about 9 different instructors for different things over the years. The tally is about 4 bad: 5 good. How is even a savy consumer supposed to avoid the sucky ones if nobody will call them out by name?

We need a wall of shame.

 

[Blackwood]

People talk in generalities about less than great instructors but P-foot around and won't or can't (due to libel/slander) say particular instructors suck. I think I've had about 9 different instructors for different things over the years. The tally is about 4 bad: 5 good. How is even a savy consumer supposed to avoid the sucky ones if nobody will call them out by name?

We need a wall of shame.

We have one, it's even searchable:

http://www.padi.com/scuba/locate-a-padi-dive-shop/default.aspx

And before anyone gets their nickers in a twist (that's for the football poster above): I'm joking.



I'm not sure a wall of shame (or praise) would on average be helpful. Much of it comes down to how you gel with the instructor. People vary in how they best learn, and thus the right instructor for me may be the wrong instructor for you.

Regarding my OW class, some students could have passed the written tests with one read through the book and didn't need the lecture. Others struggled with the material. Some picked up the in water material rather quickly. Again, others struggled. Chances are there wouldn't be anywhere near a unanimous opinion on the quality of instruction.
Maybe if an instructor is overwhelmingly rated as poor/good one could maybe draw a useful conclusion. I doubt many instructors would fall into those extrema, even the ones individuals are responding to this thread about.

 

[rjack321]

I'm not sure a wall of shame (or praise) would on average be helpful. Much of it comes down to how you gel with the instructor. People vary in how they best learn, and thus the right instructor for me may be the wrong instructor for you.

Regarding my OW class, some students could have passed the written tests with one read through the book and didn't need the lecture. Others struggled with the material. Some picked up the in water material rather quickly. Again, others struggled. Chances are there wouldn't be anywhere near a unanimous opinion on the quality of instruction.
Maybe if an instructor is overwhelmingly rated as poor/good one could maybe draw a useful conclusion. I doubt many instructors would fall into those extrema, even the ones individuals are responding to this thread about.

Of course it wouldn't be unanimous.

Funny how you can find star ratings online for TVs, cell phones, tools, books, and all manner of companies. My plasma TV was rated 4.5 by so and so, 4 by another magazine and 4.75 by another etc. But heaven forbid would anyone actually rank scuba instructors or call out substandard instruction etc, that's like a 3rd rail.

 

[Blackwood]

Of course it wouldn't be unanimous.

Funny how you can find star ratings online for TVs, cell phones, tools, books, and all manner of companies. My plasma TV was rated 4.5 by so and so, 4 by another magazine and 4.75 by another etc. But heaven forbid would anyone actually rank scuba instructors or call out substandard instruction etc, that's like a 3rd rail.

Don't misunderstand - I have no problems calling a spade a spade. I'm just speculating about the value of such a subjective rating.

OTOH, I value yelp ratings for food.

Would be interesting. I'd participate,