Added tourniquet to my thigh pocket

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I see that you aren't interested in a serious discussion where your arguments are based in more than your own bragging, but rather being snarky and condescending.

If that's what floats your boat, have at it. I'm out of here.


Storker,

I am not bragging. I have simply provided a background of my experience, which is not unique. Many folks on here have just as much if not more experience.

The only comment I had a problem with is using pressure bandages on arterial bleeding on the extremities. I'm not trying to be snarky or condescending, but rather passionate about giving back knowledge of subjects I hold close. My arguments I have presented here are not mine, but rather the United States Department of Defense. I'm merely the messenger. And this messenger has experience with the message, that's all.

I am not trying to make personal judgements or call names, but I will call out BS for what it is. You have clarified that you were trained this way. I am merely pointing out the deficiency in your training, not in you personally. If you want to make it a personal thing, I can do that too, but I prefer to be more helpful than not. A lot of stuff "floats my boat" but Internet haggling definitely is not one of them. I have been quietly reading this board for years.

So let's have a serious discussion. I'm down for that.
 
Kudos to your stance and offer!
(If I was closer, I'd get in line...)

Schwob,

I can guarantee there is someone in your area that can help. If you want, I can run down some contacts if you tell me where and when.
 
So let's have a serious discussion. I'm down for that.
The only argument here is when to apply the CAT. Are you saying that in the US Military training, it is apply CAT for any arterial bleed on an extremity before trying pressure? Is it apply CAT before moving the injured person to a safe area?
 
I am the original poster of this thread. I've learned a lot here, and my first choice for a TK was not up to speed. I now have a SOFTT-W in my truck FAK, and I'll put it in my thigh pocket when I dive. HBVeteran2312- your offer of the first aid class is Awesome!

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The only argument here is when to apply the CAT. Are you saying that in the US Military training, it is apply CAT for any arterial bleed on an extremity before trying pressure? Is it apply CAT before moving the injured person to a safe area?

That’s not actually the only argument, since it assumes tourniquets are necessary for any arterial bleed, and that’s demonstrably untrue. But, and again this illustrates that TCCC guidelines are not intended to be the best guidelines for civilian trauma care but the best guidelines for trauma care during actual combat, if your first priority is to return fire then you’d best put on the tourniquet quickly so you can then ignore the limb and rejoin your unit in blasting away at the locals.

Perhaps what everyone actually needs are knife fighting lessons for going up against the sharks! Or maybe an exposure suit built out of reactive armor!
 
Blake

Yes the tourniquet is for any compressible arterial bleed on the extremity. Because of the design of the military CAT TK, you can put your own on in under 20 seconds with a little training. The idea here is that, depending on the situation, either you, the casualty, may return fire to stop the the threat, or a teammate may return fire. Once the threat is suppressed, you can either put your own tourniquet on or a mate can help. Moving to cover and or concealment is situational dependent but we always teach that it does no good to stop firing while being engaged to just put on a TK. You are just going to take additional damage.

An arterial bleed is the same whether you are engaged in combat or on a dive with an animal bite. The quicker you move yourself out of danger the better. Then you must occlude the bleed. Pressure points, direct pressure all will slow down an arterial bleed temporarily. The CAT or any other TK will occlude the artery. This will extend the Golden Hour and allow you to move to direct care as long as you are treating for shock properly. What we found was that we did not want to waste time going through a playbook of interventions while blood was getting put on the deck. I was taught way back pre 9/11, direct pressure, elevate, pressure points, tourniquet last resort. Problem is that you have wasted time when a TK could have solved the problem in under 20 seconds. Because of the advancement of TK design post 9/11, the field tourniquet is much safer and user friendly. Another thing to consider is this: when a surgeon operates on an extremity, they use a surgical TK that works like a BP cuff. With occluded blood vessels up to two hours!

An exception I experienced was when we could not get ourselves to a safe area and began cranking tourniquets under fire over an extended 30 minute engagement. Needless to say, if we waited 30 minutes the survival rate would have been zero. This is another reason why SELF AID is stressed in the military. On the civilian side, I don’t see why you couldn’t do that also. You create your own luck, so a little practice, an extra piece of kit, and you’re able to take care of yourself and not have to depend on an unknown entity to care for you.

Hoped that helped

Paul,

Yeah bro a reactive armored up wetsuit! No more weight belts or integrated weight pouches, let’s do it!

I have had a lot of pushback bringing TCCC concepts to the civilian side for the exact reasons you stated. But a bleed is a bleed and it’s either going to get fixed sooner or later. All bleeding stops..... eventually

This is good stuff, I’m seriously stoked at least a few people are taking time to mitigate the risk of hypovolemic shock. Just having a plan and practicing it is good diving practice.
 
Here’s a simple exercise.

Get a timer, a pressure dressing, a buddy, and a tourniquet.

Start the clock and try each intervention separately. Apply the technique on your buddy until there is zero distal pulse. Record the time for each. Then figure out which intervention you want done you or a loved one for an arterial bleed on the extremity. Try each one. Direct pressure. Pressure points. Pressure dressing. Tourniquet.

Let me know what you think
 
I am the original poster of this thread. I've learned a lot here, and my first choice for a TK was not up to speed. I now have a SOFTT-W in my truck FAK, and I'll put it in my thigh pocket when I dive. HBVeteran2312- your offer of the first aid class is Awesome!

View attachment 528046 View attachment 528048
Yeah brother that's awesome. Make sure when you practice on the thigh/ upper leg which is a single bone structure, get that thing high up toward the groin like where a parachute or rappel harness would go. That way you have a better shot at the femoral artery pressure point. It takes a lot fewer turns to shut that artery off there. Job well done mate!
 
So who's using quick clot...
 
HB, you are - of course - offering training that follows appropriate guidelines, and not what you've learned in the military? Your students probably can't talk their way out of litigation like you'd be able to, especially if no certifications are involved. There are plenty of tricks I got in CLS that I can't do on the outside.

Advancing or reinforcing your first-aid training is always a great idea. Following your training and scope of practice over internet forum suggestions is also always a great idea. Above all, be smart. Be reasonable. Good Samaritan won't be there for you if you start busting out QuikClot or trying tracheotomies on the beach....

Oh, someone beat me to the quikclot comment, haha
 

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