Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[AquaExplorer]

Not really, 100's of people (myself included) have done that dive. Since it's mostly sand/rock bottom, it's not really that bad (not a learning spot, either). That being said, some of the stuff Agnes Milowka and James Toland have explored together would scare the daylights out of me. I'm guessing they chose this video because in comparison to what they've done, it's very tame, and easy to video tape.

Anyways, it was more for perspective, so let's not derail the thread!

Sheeeiiitttee....I have been in combat, I fly a private plane, crashed a motorcycle at near 100mph, skydived, and will even bungee jump....but no freaking way in hell would I ever do what I saw in that video. I would never forbid them from doing what they are doing, but I *will* say they are absolutely crazy and have something loose in their heads! :crazyeye:

 

[robint]

I don't know how they recovery divers got to see Ben's dive log, but I suspect the police on scene might have searched his car to find clues as to where the victim might be. They would probably have reviewed the dive log with the recovery divers since it would make more sense to them.

As far as dive logs, some divers don't keep a dive log at all. Others just use it to track the stats like depth, time, location, etc. Some divers use their dive log more like a journal with detailed accounts of their dives.

It would have been relavent to the search because cave divers often record routes, specific landmarks, and other dive planning info in their dive logs.

This is EXACTLY why I log every dive! If something ever happens to me, I want a log to show my training, my previous dives, and comments of dives (I note any gear issues, sinus issues, headaches, generally how I felt, everything in my log).

robin

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

At this point... and official report would include recovery team dive profiles, pressures and contents of the three tanks recovered from the scene along with discriptions of there conditions, and thats about it... Thats all the FACT that we know. No body, no other gear, we just know where he's not in that cave...

In THIS instance, there wouldn't be much of a report.

My question is about his dive log and how it was available to be viewed. I ask this out of ignorance because I am not familiar with the dive log. Obviously this is something that every diver has and it must be very personal information for Ben to write about his trick with the lock/gate. Surely something with such incriminating info would not be left for anyone to view.

Not for anyone, but don't you think it'd help the recovery teams get a better idea of what this guy had been doing? It was an eyeopener in someways, but honestly kinda expected in many others.

First of all, since a cave like Vortex is well known and open to the public, why not do more to insure it can be dived safely? Why not install, for example, (1) a minimal system of underwater lights and/or (2) emergency air (breathing gas) stations at key jumps and/or (3) some emergency signaling device and/or (4) highly reliable (not breakable) lines, in a highly public cave.

There's nothing like lights and tons of air to entice the non-trained divers into going further than they should...

Its actually one of the problems they have AT vortex. There is rope lights and an airbell to 300' into the cave. You regularly see OW divers going down there, with absolutely no business of being there.



Aside from the fact that it would totally be detrimental to the natural beauty of the caves, throwing christmas lights everywhere, the darkness and lack of breathing gasses probably keeps more people out than any gate.

 

[diverbob]

I have only been as far as the gate, so I am trying to get a better idea of what it is like past the gate, based on what others have said. It is my understanding that there are a lot of smaller off shoots that are near impossible for most people to dive. With that being said, do any of those off shoots siphon?

 

[Rick Murchison]

...do any of those off shoots siphon?

None that I know of, especially with the conditions of the last week. They're all either springs or still water. (I haven't been to anywhere near all the places there are to go in that system, however)
Rick

 

[JB]

I am appalled that there is so much reference to a lawsuit. In any rational persons mind, no one but the unfortunate diver can be held accountable.
It strikes me that the pioneers of cave diving don't hold a cave cert?! There was no cave cert at the time for them to get and they, like Ben explored caves for fun, making up strategies as they went. I suspect the reason for developing certs in the first place, was that there were so many accidents that the practice would end up being banned if the accidents kept happening.
I notice that a fair number of experienced tech divers around the world seam to have accidents (usually on rebreathers) and get a much more symapthetic hearing from the "Court of Scubaboard", than any other diver who is not a high profile tech trailblazer. I suspect the accidents that these very experienced divers have does more harm than the accident an average punter might have. It seems to me that no matter how experienced, how much training, how closely a person follow the rules, how big a legend a person is, "**** happens". Perhaps we can treat each accident as an exercise in causality, and not a search for someone to blame. It's comforting to believe that Ben was a careless, reckless, lock picking, daredevil, because it makes you believe this could never happen to you. Just like you, just like the pioneers of cave diving, Ben was out exploring, having fun and felt comfortable with the risk he was taking. Who can be sure that things would have been different if he had a few more certs stuck on his wall? Who's sure that, had he had a buddy, the outcome would have been different? (Recall and incident with a diver stuck in a cave a no amount of buddies could change the outcome). But it is comforting to believe this could never happen to me because, I leave my cert card at the shop, I dive with buddies, I have every cert card in the book, I am just ,.. oh so superior!

 

[bamamedic]

Come on....no formal deco training? No cave diving training whatsoever? Just a handful of logged cave dives in only a couple of sites, and he's supposedly diving a tiny, itsy-bitsy advanced sidemount cave?

There's a line between "exploring, having fun, and felt comfortable with the risk he was taking" and darn near suicidal, reckless abandon.

I'm not known as the most cautious diver on the planet, and even that dive makes me cringe.

 

[mike_s]

They will search the park today using horses and cadaver dogs. It has now been declared a crime scene. The FBI has been called in. This is from Ben's father. Thanks to all the divers who searched for him. May the Lord watch over you.

Why would the FBI have been called in for a missing diver? (this is not a federal issue).


(unless they suspect he's not in the cave system and there are other circumstances involved in this case).

 

[sabbath999]

Totally and entirely off topic, but I gotta ask it...

Am I the only male who watched that young lady pulling herself though that insane passage in the video posted earlier and though "Man, that's just hot."

I mean... it's hard to describe... you either know what I am talking about or you don't....

Sorry, back to the regular discussion

 

[jnunn04]

I wondered the same thing about the FBI....

I AM NOT cave certified, nor do I plan on ever doing it (cavern maybe...) BUT something about this just doesn't seem right to me.

We have a somewhat experienced diver without the formal or extensive training needed making a dive that from what I hear is way above his skill and knowledge. That I can understand - sadly, it happens.

What I don't understand is how he can get himself so far back into a VERY restricted area that is SO bad, the people with the skill, knowledge, and planning can't get to. I understand the whole drysuit/wetsuit issue - but it still confuses me how he can get in such a tight spot, that deep and that far back.