Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[bamamedic]

If he is indeed in the cave, in one word...panic.

People can/do amazing and unfortunate things when they realize that they are nearing their last breath.

It woudn't suprise me that the unfortunate diver crawled into an incredibly tight space in the throes of attempting to claw his way to air.

I dearly hope that there is a chance that this is a hoax....I'd rather it be that, then a cave diving death. And if it is a hoax...oooh. Lots of people are gonna be mad as hell.

 

[ucfdiver]

but it still confuses me how he can get in such a tight spot, that deep and that far back.

It's easy to get back IN, when you're not aware of what it takes to get OUT.

He might just not be in the cave, or maybe he's off in some bedding plane off a line. We might never know at this point.

 

[bigken462]

Why would the FBI have been called in for a missing diver? (this is not a federal issue).


(unless they suspect he's not in the cave system and there are other circumstances involved in this case).

Recall a few months back of the pilot jumped out of his plane so that the crash could fake his death. He was running from financial and legal problems, and to the direct opposite end of that. Something could have happened topside - where someone else wanted to make it look like he was down there i.e carrying the feller diving who made your babygirl cry for the first time!

Watch the butter in the popcorn Mike; it's fattening. lol
Ken

 

[Rick Murchison]

... It strikes me that the pioneers of cave diving don't hold a cave cert?! There was no cave cert at the time for them to get and they, like Ben explored caves for fun, making up strategies as they went.

And as they learned things not to do, either from their own experience or from the mishaps of others, they passed the information along and came up with a set of "rules" to follow. They formalized these lessons learned in improved equipment, procedures and courses of instruction, and wrote them down in books. They developed a philosophy of mature planning and conduct to enhance the cave diving experience, to allow others to safely enjoy the adventure without having to re-prove the efficacy of the rules writ on the headstones of those who proved them first.

...I suspect the reason for developing certs in the first place, was that there were so many accidents that the practice would end up being banned if the accidents kept happening.

Perhaps to some extent, but mostly they got tired of burying their friends.

I notice that a fair number of experienced tech divers around the world seam to have accidents (usually on rebreathers) and get a much more symapthetic hearing from the "Court of Scubaboard", than any other diver who is not a high profile tech trailblazer.

Those who intentionally violate the known rules (hard lessons learned from previous mishaps) do indeed get harsher treatment.

... It seems to me that no matter how experienced, how much training, how closely a person follow the rules, how big a legend a person is, "**** happens". Perhaps we can treat each accident as an exercise in causality, and not a search for someone to blame.

Mishap analysis doesn't lay blame, it identifies hazards.

...It's comforting to believe that Ben was a careless, reckless, lock picking, daredevil, because it makes you believe this could never happen to you.

There's nothing "comforting" about it. Only sadness that so many well known lessons were ignored.

... just like the pioneers of cave diving, Ben was out exploring, having fun and felt comfortable with the risk he was taking.

There is no comparison between the "pioneers" and what Ben did. Pioneers venture into the unknown because the unknown isn't known yet. What Ben did was to create his own unknown by consciously choosing to not know what is known.

Who can be sure that things would have been different if he had a few more certs stuck on his wall?

I obviously can't speak for Ben, but I can speak for myself. I can assure you that looking back on some of the dives I made before I went through formal cave training, it scares the stew out of me now, realizing how blind lucky I was and how deep my ignorance was... and how I was "comfortable with the risk" I thought I understood but really didn't have a clue about.
As far as being superior... to coin a phrase from aviation, "The superior diver is one who uses his superior judgment to avoid situations requiring the use of his superior skill."
Rick

 

[mike_s]

Recall a few months back of the pilot jumped out of his plane so that the crash could fake his death. He was running from financial and legal problems, and to the direct opposite end of that. Something could have happened topside - where someone else wanted to make it look like he was down there i.e carrying the feller diving who made your babygirl cry for the first time!

Watch the butter in the popcorn Mike; it's fattening. lol
Ken

Kenny, that was one of the EXACT cases that came to my mind.

the FBI would be involved due to 'across state lines', financial fraud on banking or interstate banking fraud, and perhaps faking death in regards to it.

I'm wondering if the police have run the guys credit cards to see if there's been charges on them since wednesday. I'm sure they have....

 

[bigken462]

I dearly hope that there is a chance that this is a hoax....I'd rather it be that, then a cave diving death. And if it is a hoax...oooh. Lots of people are gonna be mad as hell.

Rita, if this is a hoax, I think the safest thing the feller can do is take up banjo playing with his cousins in Tenn, cause God forbid him being caught in the water with scuba gear by the very folks whos lives were put on line looking for him!

Ken

 

[ameneon]

What I don't understand is how he can get himself so far back

While I am no cave diver it seems pretty logical that a rescue/retrive party might not get as far as a victim. If a victim lose track of where he was and just went deeper and deeper until the tank was empty they might get alot further than people that have to plan to get back. Because they have to follow the 1/3 rule of remaining gas for when to turn, have to take into consideration that in places they cannot turn they have to go back with feet first etc etc.

 

[ucfdiver]

It strikes me that the pioneers of cave diving don't hold a cave cert?! There was no cave cert at the time for them to get and they, like Ben explored caves for fun, making up strategies as they went. I suspect the reason for developing certs in the first place, was that there were so many accidents that the practice would end up being banned if the accidents kept happening.

Actually I've talked with one of the guys who started training, and that's not the case. If you'd prefer to get your facts straight and not spew ignorance, you could do the same, he's still alive and diving.

I notice that a fair number of experienced tech divers around the world seam to have accidents (usually on rebreathers) and get a much more symapthetic hearing from the "Court of Scubaboard", than any other diver who is not a high profile tech trailblazer. I suspect the accidents that these very experienced divers have does more harm than the accident an average punter might have. It seems to me that no matter how experienced, how much training, how closely a person follow the rules, how big a legend a person is, "**** happens".

Don't take a 1 in 50,000 death of a trained diver and make it sound like it's the same odds for someone without training, that's a logical fallacy...a big one.

It's comforting to believe that Ben was a careless, reckless, lock picking, daredevil, because it makes you believe this could never happen to you. Just like you, just like the pioneers of cave diving, Ben was out exploring, having fun and felt comfortable with the risk he was taking. Who can be sure that things would have been different if he had a few more certs stuck on his wall?

Statistics say this. Some years when training was hard to get access to, there were up to 30 cave deaths.

But it is comforting to believe this could never happen to me because, I leave my cert card at the shop, I dive with buddies, I have every cert card in the book, I am just ,.. oh so superior!

Actually, I have the experience built up after training with an instructors guidance to make a more educated decision on where to dive.

 

[alohagal]

I truly doubt there is a HOAX here. But, a thorough investigation must be conducted if there is doubt as to what actually did happen.

I don't find it so inconceivable that a 30 year old male with the eagerness and folly of youth and full access to "free" cave diving could get stuck in a spot where he cannot be safely or wisely found.

Total silt out, broken main line, complete inexperience, narcosis, darkness, no sign pointing to the way out, lack of air and utter panic. He could be wedged in all kind of places.

Their is no hoax intrigue here. Just a very tragic cave dive death.

To the friends and family: Ben is not the first person to die in a cave from doing the wrong thing. And he will, sadly, not be the last. I think what makes this a difficult "current" tragedy for cave divers and those in training is the very long laundry list of things he did wrong. (if everything reported here is correct). The more you educate yourselves in cave training, just by reading books and materials of those who have died tragically before, and by reading some of the posts here, you will have a better understanding of why this is the most basic violation of the rules for cave diving.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

While I am no cave diver it seems pretty logical that a rescue/retrive party might not get as far as a victim. If a victim lose track of where he was and just went deeper and deeper until the tank was empty they might get alot further than people that have to plan to get back. Because they have to follow the 1/3 rule of remaining gas for when to turn, have to take into consideration that in places they cannot turn they have to go back with feet first etc etc.

You need to remember he was diving air. At that depth he was terribly narced and not thinking straight. That would enable him to do a lot more than a clear headed diver.