Abandoned at Sea - Sun June 26, 2005 - The Ibis, Dania Beach, Hollywood Fl.

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At the risk of starting an extra fury here...
The Libra in me wants to temper this thread. By no means am I minimizing the seriousness of Neil's actions, particularly his failure to learn from the incident, but this forum has the ability to do serious damage to an operator's reputation.

In my time here in Florida I have dove with at least 15 different operators - from large to 6-packs. I cannot recall more than two or three using the roll call method to assure all divers were on board. Head counts are the norm not the exception.

As a strong forum we have the ability to effect change by being the ones that learn from this lesson. How often do we even ask the dive operator what their procedures are before we get on board? If we all starting making it our policy to insist on a roll call we will make a change and will also help educate, and protect, divers who are not part of this forum.
 
ReneeC:
At the risk of starting an extra fury here...
The Libra in me wants to temper this thread. By no means am I minimizing the seriousness of Neil's actions, particularly his failure to learn from the incident, but this forum has the ability to do serious damage to an operator's reputation.

Had it been you that was left out there you would probably be using the word "temper" in a completely different context. You have no idea what I didn't put in my report and you would probably be appalled and disgusted to know the rest.

Also, you're OVERESTIMATEING the power of this board.

Your thought about people being more proactive are good and I hope that by word of mouth this operation as well as others hear of this incident or start to being asked about roll calls often enough that they will get the message - "run a safer operation and hold your customers safety and lives in higher regard."
 
ReneeC:
At the risk of starting an extra fury here...
The Libra in me wants to temper this thread. By no means am I minimizing the seriousness of Neil's actions, particularly his failure to learn from the incident, but this forum has the ability to do serious damage to an operator's reputation.
No offense to Don Janni, but if it were only his post I would be still be wondering what the other side of the story was.

BUT, when Sharpenu comes in with an independent report about the how the Captain lied to the Coast Guard and said that he knew of the missing diver and was already searching, when in reality he was not; then I see no reason to "temper" this thread.

Charlie
 
ReneeC:
At the risk of starting an extra fury here...
The Libra in me wants to temper this thread. By no means am I minimizing the seriousness of Neil's actions, particularly his failure to learn from the incident, but this forum has the ability to do serious damage to an operator's reputation.

In my time here in Florida I have dove with at least 15 different operators - from large to 6-packs. I cannot recall more than two or three using the roll call method to assure all divers were on board. Head counts are the norm not the exception.

As a strong forum we have the ability to effect change by being the ones that learn from this lesson. How often do we even ask the dive operator what their procedures are before we get on board? If we all starting making it our policy to insist on a roll call we will make a change and will also help educate, and protect, divers who are not part of this forum.
I have personally told dive operators that I wouldn’t be diving with them because they didn’t meet my safety standards whether it’s roll call or other items, and too many don’t seem to care if one diver ever comes back to their shop. Granted, it’s not as bad in Florida as out of the country where they figure they’ve already got your money for the week and you are not likely to be a regular repeat customer, but some operators in Florida are just as bad. Since many operators fail to care about a single diver’s opinion or business, I fail to see the down side of using an online coalition of divers to ruin the reputation of operators who won’t learn from their mistakes.

Unsafe operators ultimately cost all divers more when shops have to raise their rates to cover increased insurance costs brought about by the actions of a few in the industry.
 
Bill51:
I have personally told dive operators that I wouldn’t be diving with them because they didn’t meet my safety standards whether it’s roll call or other items, and too many don’t seem to care if one diver ever comes back to their shop.
I just wrote about an experience last weekend in my Destin Jetties, Wrecks, Morrison Springs post in the florida conch divers forum. At the end of my trip I was two dives short as I told the dive operator I wouldn't be going out with them for many different reasons stated in my post.

I don't want this thread to get OT, so I posted it over there. I have and will not hesitate to call a dive if I feel an operator is unsafe/incompetant. I have always thought about head counts and how unsafe they are, but fail to ask if this is how the boat records people on/off the boat. I will now ask in the future what method of roll call/head count they use before even boarding the boat. Just another question to add to the already long list of questions when talking to a dive op. I can thank this thread for that.. :)

Matt
 
lies or not, this operator did NOT conduct a head count......name or not, a body is a body.....give me a number, color, piece of a jig saw puzzle.... who cares......12 bodies, regardless of name, is 12 bodies...
I am caught up in this since this is one of the closest providers to me.
I have used this service in the past and they were fine.....
hopefully they are following this thread and take it to heart......
An inquiry before contract will now be in order.....for everyone....
Mary
 
So, I need some education.........
That there is a missing diver from the group, a name is imperative?????Is gender important???? I am new to diving and don't understand many of the inuendos.....
thanks for enlightenment...I don't undestand.
I am coming to dive in fla soon, and I appreciate what to be on guard for......
 
marydiver:
So, I need some education.........
That there is a missing diver from the group, a name is imperative?????Is gender important???? I am new to diving and don't understand many of the inuendos.....
thanks for enlightenment...I don't undestand.
I am coming to dive in fla soon, and I appreciate what to be on guard for......
The problem I have with headcounts with more than 6 divers on board is that they’re moving around so much that it’s very easy for a DM to get distracted and count someone twice. Verbal roll calls on larger boats can get just as easily messed up when over the noise of people chattering and the engines running Bill answers for Phil and they don’t catch it, so the sign in sheet fixes that potential problem. On live aboards where people are not always diving at the same time, the tag board works better than a sign in/out sheet where someone might forget to sign out, and everyone is aware that everyone in the water should have their number tag on and prominently displayed.

I’m fortunate that I’m such an extravert that someone would notice the silence if they left me overboard – unless it was intentional. :D
 
Padipro:
"...as reported to me by a member of this board that Neil has not kept his promise. On a dive yesterday they were counting heads again."

Don,

I dived with them on Friday night and I can tell you all they did was a head count, no roll call was taken.

I was also there with Padipro and can verify only a head count other than at the dock, before leaving for the dive. When they did this pre-departure head count, they saw that there were more people on the boat than had signed up on the dive roster. So, they requested that anyone that had not yet signed on the roster do so.

They then proceeded to do a roll call while people were still filling out the dive roster, meaning that these people were not included in the pre-departure roll call. This could leave open another chance for a missed diver along the way.
 

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