A very bad week in Florida

[Dan Gibson]

Imagine that

That's ok ... He is not getting that from any other board either ...

 

[beezwax]

WOW....umm, yeah. Wow. Can I have the past 2 hours of my life back, please?

and mine, d@mn.

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

Thank you very much for this offer, which is very tempting. Especially with all the good things that people say about you.
However I am in the British Midlands and you are in Florida. By the time I have found the time, paid for the airfare, car hire, accomodation etc I may just as well do a full cave course as a (free) cave diving review.
Currently I am a bit traumatised by the whole training and instruction thing. So I am just going to work on my skills and do some fun diving. When I have the time, money and inclination I will probably do a full cave course. I don't know where, with what instructor or to which agency's standards yet.

Brucie crying poor? I don't believe this. He goes mercifully quiet on DN on average once every 4-6 weeks, because he is jetting across the world, to dive destinations in the Red Sea, Philipines, Bonaire, Menorca and all points in between (or that's what he tells us), his profile mentions that he drives a Ferrari. And now he is whingeing about the cost of a flight across the pond?

Usual Brucie story, kicks up a stink and sounds off about something, but when he's challenged seriously, to put his money where his mouth is, he pikes out with a load of crappy and very unconvincing excuses.

Seen it all before. leopard, spots etc.

Actually, while I'm here, I can't understand what all the fuss is about, as I thought Brucie was already cave qualified, or at least that's what he has been telling everyone:

See:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?p=2636148#post2636148

(post #57) and I quote:

"Of course it helps that I am cave certified and have TDI Advanced Wreck as well. As I said in an earlier post these PADI speciality courses depend more on the individual instructor than OW and AOW do."

 

[Doubles]

Actually, while I'm here, I can't understand what all the fuss is about, as I thought Brucie was already cave qualified, or at least that's what he has been telling everyone:

See:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?p=2636148#post2636148

(post #57) and I quote:

"Of course it helps that I am cave certified and have TDI Advanced Wreck as well. As I said in an earlier post these PADI speciality courses depend more on the individual instructor than OW and AOW do."

I can see that I am going to need a lot more popcorn for this thread

 

[Fort Collins Bob]

I posted this over on TDS ...

Man, just shopping for cards....

When I 'attempted' to complete my full cave w/ Larry green of NACD..

I am glad he told me the way it was... bad at first...

It was never about the 'card' .. it was about being able to feel in myself
that I had achieved something within myself... the skill level of being able
to go into the cave systems in a safe manner and have the skill set to
dive along side other cave divers within the system in a comfortable
way.

Forget the f(*&( card... S&^%.

Larry green told me that I could pass the class if he felt I had the skill
set and be safe enough to allow me to go cave diving with his wife.. Debra.

I think everyone here knows how much he loves his wife, Debbie.

It took me three attempts , I believe to achieve the level of Cave diving
in which he was just able to see a hint of cave diver in me to get the 'card'.

Man, if you are just sweating and complaining about your first attempt
at becoming full cave .. (*&*&^&^%&$%$^%$^%$^%$^

What the heck are you going to do when somebody gives you a card..
then you find yourself back in the big bad cave system and it all turns
to **** !!!

What somebody gonna drag your *** out of the system in a body bag ?

hmmm ..

Bruciebaby .. reality check please !!!

Forget about the card thing and start thinking about the skill thing.

If you want to become a cave diver ...

PLEASE ,start listening to the CAVE DIVERS !

I have a FULL CAVE diver card... at this point I am just starting to evolve
as a true beginner 'cave diver'.

Just a thought..

(ok, .. off soap box.)

B

 

[GDI]

Bruce go and practice.
My offer will still satnd for when you think you are ready. If you feel that you want to attempt full cave then by all means lets see, show me the skills. I understand the cost concern.

Keep this in mind while you practice (I am serious here with nothing against you, these are words I use in my class)

Bad Instruction = Bad Skills

Poorly Trained Skills are just as effective as having no skills

Poorly practiced skills = Poorly trained skills

You practice poor skills, you continue to be poor

Good Luck

 

[Meng_Tze]

I wonder if he actually will. Can I step in and learn from you GDI?

 

[Bobby]

I responded rather early in this thread to Bruce. I do believe that what I said is accurate. This post is not directed at Bruce because IMHO he is a closed mind and will not move forward in a positive manner. Instead this is directed towards divers that are still forming the way to approach their diving.

First I feel I should give some more of my background for a better understanding of my view point. I have been diving for a little over 20 years. I started in the military and fell into what is today termed "Technical Diving" I was doing experimental mixed gas diving in the military and this made it easier for me to open relationships in recreational diving that leaned towards the technical side. When I started to get involved in this type of diving it had no name such as technical diving and no formal training. When I got into cave diving it was more structured but still it was common for divers to learn the skills and not get a certification. For many years I did cave dives without the card and had no questions from other divers because of how I went about my diving. A side note is that when I did get my certification the instructor that I worked with wanted to impress me with who he knew. He took me to a prominent cave instructor trainers house to meet him. When we were introduced the instructor trainer and I looked at each other in recognition of kowing each other. We had met for years at cave sites and he was suprised to learn that I was taking the class to get certification. We are still friends and have had many drinks talking about how funny that day was. My point is that today is not as it was in the past. I spent most of my cave diving time very close to the entrance learning systems like the back of my hand and I was in no hurry to get deep into the system. My learning and training curve for the time was not that out of the ordinary. Today it is absurd.

Fast forward and today I am a technical dive instructor. I work with many more students in mentoring than I teach in a structured class. I also have the unfortunate situation that I have more students that fail than pass my classes. I would and will not change this situation and understand what I mean by unfortunate. It is unfortunate for the student that they must go through this process. Many times I have students that come into my classes with the mind set that it is only a process. For me as an instructor it is much more than a process, it is establishing a base line for them to move on to another level of diving. If every detail is not in place for them to move on I will not issue the certification. Students are informed of this before they partake in any of my classes. I care if the student in can move forward with their diving in a manner that will allow solid planning, execution and review of each dive.

The reality of diving IMO: diving in itself requires life support to do. Our present technology allows this to happen with little risk. When you start to add to the difficulty of the dive such as technical diving, the mind set and the ability to plan for unforseen circumstances becomes' a greater factor. As divers progress they tend to focus on skills and easily forget that mind set is also very important. Let me say this, I know I have over 3,000 dives and could easily have over 4,000 I am not sure because of time spent not logging dives. What does this mean to you? IMHO NOT A DARN THING!!! I could have spent all of that time on a 40 foot reef with no over head to deal with. I DO EXPLORATION DIVES. What does this mean to you? Not a darn thing. For me exploration means what I say it does but to others it may be more extreme. My point is that training gets you to a base point of understanding and this type of training has a high bar. Think about not only your skills and what you have done in the past. I feel it is important to think about why you are doing this now and if you are there for the right reasons. IMHO if you are doing it for the right reasons you care not if you get a card or pass the class. More importantant is that you take away from that class some very important lessons and improve on your skills.

One last note that may interest some is that I came very close to failing my full cave class, for very good reason. I was by far the most experienced and had the most knowledge. I spent a lot of time setting up the training and was certain that I knew how it was going to go. My instructor being rather experienced himself and knowing my abilities put a lot of stress, into the class, that I did not expect. During the class I did not react well to the stress and had problems. In the end I passed only because I could articulate the issues and also could recognize that they affected my mind set for the dives. This was a life lesson for me and I hope it helps others as well.

I have had the unfortunate experience of knowing too many friends that have not come back from a dive. The reality is that none of them ever had a desire for the end result. I also have no desire to not return from a dive, yet I accept the fact every time I dive in any situation that it may be a reality. With this in mind I look at avery dive and work towards both accepting that it may be my last and also that I must take every variable into consideration. There are so many things to do in life. If the extreme diving is your calling than it will come in time, if it is to build your ego I must suggest to find another avenue. This sport, or from my mind set life style, will crush those that do not have patience and are willing to put in the time.

Good luck and safe diving,

Bobby

 

[SparticleBrane]

Well said, Bobby. Sounds like I need to work on my mindset.

 

[Meister481]

Um, that's a natural stickey if I've ever seen one.