a spin off to the dying a hero thread...

[peterbj7]

Well its now been answered and even YOUR agency says its against the standards - AND you have apparently quoted and/or references an instructor and they are saying that it was BS.

Huh? Not me. Besides, what is MY agency? I teach for quite a few and belong to even more.

Ive also seen you make untrue statements in a thread about boats and boat handling at high speeds where you were wrong.
Might be a pattern developing.

Perhaps you'd care to make specific comments where they can be responded to, rather than indulging in childish mud-slinging.

 

[Blackwood]

Turning off my own gas gives me a fair while to plan how I will respond to being without gas. Someone else here gave an example of how they had about thirty seconds to think things through when going OOA due to an empty stage. It's a while to chill out about things.

When it is unexpected and your instructor times it so that you are OOA and maskless on an exhale at a very inopportune moment, you REALLY want air asap and it results in a physical stress response which can reduce how calmly you think things through. I found being subjected to that helped me learn to calm my physical response to being OOA down and think through things better such as (given I have been maskless) 'where was my buddy's position when I last could see' and so on. It also made me realise how much longer I can last without air and in general gave me more confidence when dealing with unexpected situations.

If you've had a rolloff and get your right post blown, you'll experience the same thing when you switch to the left. There isn't enough gas in the hose to give you anywhere close to thirty seconds to think; you inhale, you get nothing.

Same stress, but with the added benefit of forcing you to think through a realistic situation. You have a ton of options. Turn on the left post (I'm assuming since you reached the right to shut it down, you can also reach the left). Go to a buddy's gas. Turn the leaking right post back on and isolate. Feather it if you want to. The "you're completely out of gas" scenario leaves only the buddy or the surface, and neglects the you-did-it-to-yourself-and-it's-fixable lesson.

 

[rjack321]

Maybe steal 1 fin, and flood their drysuit.

I have seen fins stolen (they can fall off and/or straps can break). The finless diver wasn't especially stressed but his buddies were almost useless. They got reamed...

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I have seen fins stolen (they can fall off and/or straps can break). The finless diver wasn't especially stressed but his buddies were almost useless. They got reamed...

Happened to a guy at JB when the flow was strong. He wound up wrapped up in his line like a mummy and blown down the pond almost to the fence before his buddy could get there.

 

[manni-yunk]

Huh? Not me. Besides, what is MY agency? I teach for quite a few and belong to even more.




Perhaps you'd care to make specific comment where they can be responded to, rather than indulging in childish mud-slinging.

IANTD, NAUI, TDI, and GUE - all against standards. Can you reference an agency where it defined as within standards - since you teach for so many and belong to many others?

As for the mud slinging - you are right. I will no longer reference the other thread - in this one and I apologize.

As for childish - you are the one that has made statements about what Tom said that are now apparently BS.

 

[Blackwood]

I have seen fins stolen (they can fall off and/or straps can break). The finless diver wasn't especially stressed but his buddies were almost useless. They got reamed...

I've seen second stage diaphragms removed in training, and coincidentally enough have been in the water when a buddy lost the one on his 70 bottle.

 

[peterbj7]

I'm sorry manni-yunk (where on earth did you get that name from?!) I'm not at all sure what standard has been violated by what action. Can you be more explicit?

As to what TM may or may not have said, do you have specific knowledge about this? Again, just what statements have I made that are now "apparently BS"?

 

[Sas]

If you've had a rolloff and get your right post blown, you'll experience the same thing when you switch to the left. There isn't enough gas in the hose to give you anywhere close to thirty seconds to think; you inhale, you get nothing.

Same stress, but with the added benefit of forcing you to think through a realistic situation. You have a ton of options. Turn on the left post (I'm assuming since you reached the right to shut it down, you can also reach the left). Go to a buddy's gas. Turn the leaking right post back on and isolate. Feather it if you want to. The "you're completely out of gas" scenario leaves only the buddy or the surface, and neglects the more likely you-did-it-to-yourself-and-it's-fixable lesson.

And how is this mutually exclusive to just turning off air? I have checked for roll off EVERY time I have made contact with cave, that's just how I am. I have not had a roll off in cave training or cave diving in general.

As I have said, I have been given a left post failure and not long after, a OOA buddy. My first instinct was to turn on my left post as I knew it was just an airgun, not a real failure. I was prevented so next instinct was to buddy breathe. This entire thing was not stressful. Having to deal with an unexpected OOA was.

Oh yea, and I have had an instructor try to steal my fins I got away though...

 

[Blackwood]

And how is this mutually exclusive to just turning off air?

I don't understand your question. How is what mutually exclusive to just turning off air.

I have not had a roll off in cave training

Is that normal?

My first instinct was to turn on my left post as I knew it was just an airgun, not a real failure. I was prevented so next instinct was to buddy breathe. This entire thing was not stressful. Having to deal with an unexpected OOA was.

So intellectually, knowing that the post failure was fake played into your response logic. I'm wondering why your first instinct when your air got turned off wasn't the same, i.e. to reach back and turn it on since it wasn't a real failure.

Speaking as someone who actually (and stupidly) has run out of gas without the meddling blue gloves of death anywhere in the mix, it was singularly un-stressful. Much simpler/easier to deal with than any number of things I've done in training. And it wasn't in a vacuum, it happened while pulling down the SMB. I stopped, let it go back up, got on Rainer's gas, cleaned up a bit, handed him the spool, and up we went. Oh, it it wasn't instantaneous. I had a good 5 breaths, each progressively harder to inhale, before it stopped delivering gas. Even with balanced regs on stage bottles intentionally breathed dry at depth, you have warning.

 

[Sas]

I don't understand your question. How is what mutually exclusive to just turning off air.

The scenario you described. Why cannot this be done alongside of unexpected failures such as an instructor turning off gas?

Is that normal?

Sometimes after going through a restriction, when I am doing a flow check, I find that my left post has rolled off a bit. So, normal for me.

So intellectually, knowing that the post failure was fake played into your response logic. I'm wondering why your first instinct when your air got turned off wasn't the same, i.e. to reach back and turn it on since it wasn't a real failure.

It was my first instinct. I was stopped. I have also immediately switched to a backup reg when a reg has been ripped out of my mouth, only to have that one ripped out as well. Sometimes I have been warned about this in advance and told that primary reg being ripped out of mouth = OOA, however I have automatically responded with putting my backup reg in.

Knowing that a post failure is fake certainly plays into my response. I don't think training can ever completely capture what a real life failure would be like, but it is a start.