a retreat from DIR

[H2Andy]

Given that you are training with NSS-CDS, has this actually brought you more in line with your other team members?

yes, basically

but these small changes are not an issue outside of DIR. i recognize (and respect)
DIR's emphasis on similar gear configuration

in other words, i never had a problem by diving the DIR setup with my
non DIR buddies. but yes, these two changes do bring me closer to
the way my cave buddies wear their equipment.

Anything else you've had to change to accomodate moving the lighthead?

the only changes have been the computer and watch (computer was on
right, watch was on left. now computer is on left, watch is on right).

also, because we spend 90% of our time swimming in single file, we don't really
glance at each other's gauges at all.

 

[plankspanker]

these were non-issues to me:

2. not a real issue. trained cave divers are not going to panic b/c they
get a light in their eyes.

3. the hand-off takes two to three seconds. there's no signal other than
EMERGENCY that can't wait 2 to 3 seconds. and, you know, if we're OOA,
i KNOW we're in an emergency.

2. that sounds like you are resigned to the fact that you may blind them. When you commented that you thought the blinding issue was over rated did you mean that you thought the reaction to being blinded was over rated or the chance of getting blinded was? I think that for the most part that a trained cave diver should be able to handle being blinded for a second considering the amount of time spent drilling in the dark but at the same time if someone was OOA for real and they had to swim over to you or for whatever reason the donation wasn't instant I think the stress level would go up considerably over a normal drill and that you shouldn't take the reaction to being blinded lightly.

3. what about the situation of a three man team where the last two people in line are dealing with the OOA, being able to signal the leader would be a good thing. 2 or 3 seconds is enough for someone to get around a corner.

 

[JeffG]

Maybe, but still the right answer from the DIR perspective, which is what Andy wanted to hear.
Didn't he?

No the right answer from the DIR perspective is "Who cares". Andy went personal preference. Well, gee, thats nice.

 

[H2Andy]

2. that sounds like you are resigned to the fact that you may blind them.

i had argued earlier in the thread that the chances of actually shining the light
on your buddy's eye is small, if practiced that way. in addition, even if the light
gets in their eyes, this should not be a big deal.

plankspanker]3. what about the situation of a three man team where the last two people in line are dealing with the OOA, being able to signal the leader would be a good thing. 2 or 3 seconds is enough for someone to get around a corner.

the person handing off the reg would have to do that AND signal ahead at the
same time. i believe that DIR protocol is to take care of the emergency first
and then worry about other aspects.

thus, DIR protocol would dictate that you (a) complete the air share and deal
with the emergency; and (b) worry about signaling later.

also, don't forget that as soon as that team leader loses track of the lights
behind him, he's going to stop and see what gives, and will turn around
if he does'nt see lights shortly anyway.

 

[H2Andy]

No the right answer from the DIR perspective is "Who cares". Andy went personal preference. Well, gee, thats nice.

my goal is not to be DIR

my goal is to do something that is safe and works for my diving and my team

with that said, i respect DIR's position. i'm just trying to see if anyone can
suggest reasons i haven't thought of not to make the change.

let me put this another way. "because it's DIR" is not a satisfactory answer.
why is it DIR? what's the reason behind it? that's what i'm looking at.

 

[jonnythan]

Did you see my question about how the handoff goes if you are a foot or two higher in the water than the other diver?

 

[in_cavediver]

Several folks have asked about how these changes have affected your team. Given that you are training with NSS-CDS, has this actually brought you more in line with your other team members?

This made me think of one thing. I am IANTD and NACD trained and in all of the classes, cave and tech, gear matching was taught as was developing familar dive buddies/teams. With that, does any of the GUE/DIR training teach gear/team matching prior to dives for cases when DIR and non-DIR trained divers meet and want to do an 'advanced' dive? (Cavern, Cave, deep, deco)

 

[H2Andy]

Did you see my question about how the handoff goes if you are a foot or two higher in the water than the other diver?

oops.. no

well, the possibility of shining a light in your buddy's eyes will increase if
you are above them, yes

but again, i don't think this is a major issue. a trained diver is not going to
panic by having a light shining in his face. if he does, he's going to panic
at a lot of other things (for example, finding himself out of air in a cave)

bottom line is, i think this "blinding your buddy" problem is a red herring.
i've practiced tons of OOA and S-drills with divers who are not DIR and
it's never been an issue, even when done deep in the cave (on the way
out, of course).

i had a real OOA once, and the diver was wearing the light on his right
hand. this happened in a cave. not an issue.

i just got done with my apprentice cave class, with both the other divers
wearing lights on their right hand. we did quite a few OOA. again, the light
in the eye was not an issue.

 

[cornfed]

This made me think of one thing. I am IANTD and NACD trained and in all of the classes, cave and tech, gear matching was taught as was developing familar dive buddies/teams. With that, does any of the GUE/DIR training teach gear/team matching prior to dives for cases when DIR and non-DIR trained divers meet and want to do an 'advanced' dive? (Cavern, Cave, deep, deco)

I believe GI said a few things about DIR folks diving with non-DIR folks...

 

[in_cavediver]

I believe GI said a few things about DIR folks diving with non-DIR folks...

And I have said a few things about my opinion of GI. Not relevant to the question I asked though.