a retreat from DIR

[onfloat]

nope Jon

the light is mounted on the hand. the wrist is turned up. the light is shinning up.

try it sometime

also, you can pivot your hand slightly so it's pointing away from your
buddy's face if it's a problem

seriously, i believe this "blind your buddy" problem is seriously overated

how many air-shares do you kow of have failed because of buddy-blinding,
leading to the drowning of the buddy?

on the other hand, i was facing a constat, very real problem of an entanglement
hazzard. THAT was the problem i had to address. that was the real problem,
not this "buddy blinding" thing that really, is a non-issue for me.

I reach up grab the hose on my primary, my palm is toward my face fingers over the top. Light is pointing up

Extend my right hand toward my team mate, the mouth piece is down to minimize free flow. My palm is down, the light is pointed right at my team mate's eyes.:06: How does he not end up blinded?

 

[double80s]

I always have my light on my right hand, with the cord coming over my shoulder and wrapped around the forearm. Never had any problems or compaints with air share drills, in training or practice. My dive buddies who scooter usually switch back and forth between left and right hands depending on the situation, but usually it is on the left while scootering.

My spg has been clipped off to the left waist d-ring since the begining. It always felt right and natural there. Recently, a buddy who was clipping the spg to his left chest d-ring, switched back to clipping to his waist. I don't remember why he went back to the "standard" configuration, but he did.

I see your reasoning for clipping to the chest d-ring, but personally don't feel it neccessary. As long as you can justify it, there's nothing wrong with it.

R

 

[onfloat]

The light on the left hand, keeps the right hand free for scootering and tying line while running it, among other things, so......

this was my biggest concern. however, i found that an elastic handle on my
DiveRite light keeps the light secure, and i can lay line and reel line without
difficulty.

So, if your tying with your right hand and holding the light, what signal are you sending your team mate?

 

[H2Andy]

So, if your tying with your right hand and holding the light, what signal are you sending your team mate?

well, i'm ahead of them while leading in, so this isn't an issue while tying the line

on the way out, of course, i am last in line, so this becomes an issue.
however, i've found that just a little bit of care to keep the light from "crossing" back and forth avoids any jerky, emergency-like signal.

Extend my right hand toward my team mate, the mouth piece is down to minimize free flow. My palm is down, the light is pointed right at my team mate's eyes.:06: How does he not end up blinded?

you can do the same thing with your wrist pointed up (thus, the light
is pointed up). also, you can turn your hand slightly and keep the light
away from your buddy's face

once you become aware that this is a problem, it is easy to fix. just practice
it that way during the OOA, and it becomes second nature.

 

[GDI]

Interesting post here.

DIR works as does standard hogarthian (if I can call it that).

The big thing in cave/tech/sport diving is that the diver needs to think

Now I'm not configured to DIR by their definition . Examples: I have my spg coming over my left shoulder and positioned just below my collar bone. I can read it regardless of having stage bottles on or not, I just look down and can see the numbers. My dive team members can read it if they feel the need to check my air as it is turned forward. It is not getting scatched up because in a trimmed position it does not come down far enough to be against the rocks or silt trapped below my body, it points forward the same as my eyes when moving. I have no problem if divers have it on their hip or under their arm clipped to the left shoulder d-ring. A diver needs to have a logical reason as to why they want it whereever that is and they need to practice with it there. If it doesn't work they can always go back to what they had, this is called experimentation and is known as gear evolution, which is a never ending process.

As for the light, a lot of divers will move the light from the left to right hand depending on what they need to do. I have seen even GUE instructors temporarily do this because they were not in a position in the cave to pull with the right hand or aim the light where they needed it. You need to be adaptable to the situation.

The long hose and deployment. The important thing here is can you deploy it and give the OOA diver AIR. The light blinding the guy, if it occurs I don't think he will really mind, after all he has air now. Grabbing the hose in such a way that the mouth piece is down to prevent freeflow, then twisting it up to prevent blinding the guy while presenting the mouth piece in the correct ready receiving position is really not that difficult to perform. Your second stage will swivel on the hose and dropping your head during its deployment will point the mouth piece down coming out of your mouth. If your light is on the right hand the twisting action will prevent blinding the guy.

Also if I can add I don't wrap my long hose around my cannister light, it comes down behind my right shoulder blade across my chest up behind my left shoulder blade behind my neck and into my mouth I don't need to raise my arms to deploy it, it just slides off and out to the diver who needs it, a restriction in back mount still leaves me enough room measuring from my tanks to my chest to move my arms being able to deploy the long hose, yet I have never had to move my arms to deploy it other then my right arm to give it to the OOA diver. It just comes out from the back of my neck and rolls off my left shoulder to the other diver.. There are those who wrap the long hose around their cannister (and I say this without faulting them because it is not a fault) and have to take that extra second or two to clear it from their cannister to fully deploy it. If I in a panic needed air and they gave it to me I might be gone having only two feet of hose to work with and they will be doing twisted back flips bouncing off the cave attempting to undo it from their cannister, I have seen this happen plenty during training dives. Of course if they do deploy it correctly they will not let go of it until they have checked their left post and are breathing off their short hose and have ran their right hand down the hoses entire length to free it up while rotating the OOA diver to the lead position in preparation to exit if they can in a calming manner.

The long hose comes across the chest for all divers using a long hose, DIR included. With it there, is it not anymore of a snag problem then the light cord coming across the chest for a diver wishing to hold the light in their left hand?

The difference is that the light cord is more active with the light moving about signalling and looking around. My light is used in both hands and even clipped off at times. Clipped off I have no problems signalling with it or looking around, I sure can pull and glide using both hands. The excess cord of which is not that long is tucked up tight to the cannister under my belt and deploys as needed and is stowed if unneeded. Left hand right hand my light is where I need it to be when I need to use it. I pull and glide with it in either hand, I can work the reel with it in either hand or I can clip it off and use both hands.

While repetition of a skill is meant to help the diver with any problems they may have in using equipment it can also cause them to develop bad and uncomfortable habits if working that equipment in a certain way just doesn't seem safely functional to them.

My whole point here is Andy can go back to what he had or was doing before, he does need to find what works for him. The diver needs to think.

Cave diving is a activity that is or should be planned as a solo self dependant responsibility and then conducted as a social event. Andy asked for DIR feed back lets hear it with a open mind but lets also accept what else has to be heard, good post

 

[TSandM]

Rick, thanks for an excellent post. As I learned in surgical training, protocols are great things, but one must always be aware of where they came from, and what assumptions were made when they were developed. Rules are never an excuse not to think.

 

[Dive-aholic]

So, if your tying with your right hand and holding the light, what signal are you sending your team mate?

I had the same question and posed it to my cave instructor. I thought his answer made a lot of sense:

Your team mate knows you are tying/untying at that moment. The movement is slight, not the marked intentional signal when a real problem is at hand.

Even when reeling, the light only moves back and forth slightly. It's obvious, if your team mate is aware of what you are doing, which he/she should be, what you are doing.

 

[GDI]

I had the same question and posed it to my cave instructor. I thought his answer made a lot of sense:

Your team mate knows you are tying/untying at that moment. The movement is slight, not the marked intentional signal when a real problem is at hand.

Even when reeling, the light only moves back and forth slightly. It's obvious, if your team mate is aware of what you are doing, which he/she should be, what you are doing.

Not only that but your team member should be providing you light during all tie offs and helping out if needed when you are pulling/removing the line

 

[Mike Veitch]

I just love readin all this stuff about worrying about blinding your buddy when sharing air... hahahahah

Tooo funny!!!!
Its like everyone on SB only dives in caves and runs out of air all the time......
wahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[cerich]

i've had problems going through the Devil's Eye into the mainline, particularly
where there are deep drop-offs (two of them). also, i've had trouble on the Ear,
particularly on exit, with the cord catching on the rocks.

I think the cord length may be off. I'm also thinking trim but until we were to dive together I hate just throwing that out there...



particularly in a high flow system (such as Devil's), you're either moving into the
current or it's pushing you back. having to run the line, keep bouyancy, keep
forward progress, and check my gauage by clipping and unclipping is a lot of
things going on at once for me. glancing at the gauge is simplicity itself.

Actually being able to stop is fairly easy once you learn the cave. Spend some time on your next dive positioning yourself everywhere, In the middle of the flow, on the left, on the right, on the ceiling on the bottom, behind a bend etc. You'll find there are lots of places even in a high flow cave where the current is less to nil and you can stop and relax. Hint, look for areas that are covered with silt/sand on the bottom.



yes, on the left. part of the problem with the SPG on the lower d-ring was messing
with the darn stage bottle clip. now that it's up top, the SPG does not interfere
with the bottle and vice versa.

Yup the SPG and a stage mess with each other, with practice it gets better but can still be a pain. Call Scooter Sellers (ex wkpp gas diver/cave instr trainer) tell him you want one of his left hip rings he designed. You will NEVER go back. Heck if you don't like it I'll refund you!

Regarding the light left, I like my right hand free for pull and glides, deploying a bag(not in cave)

Best,

Chris